Lemon Law Arbitration vs. Litigation

[GreyFox]

The federal. Manguson-Moss act treats issues that connot be repaired as a breach of warranty since a vehicle has an warranty to function safely and properly and repairs to this warranty must be satisfactory to the purchaser. Not being able to repair the problem is a violation (breach) of this warranty and is recoverable per federal law under this act.

Look it up...or ask your attorney.

I love it when people post this
Let me ask you this, who has more time and money? You or FCA?
It's not an excuse. It's reality.

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[KnG818]

You’ve obviously never driven a JL with the problem. If you have you would understand the issue is not the jeep thing. We all know how a jeep should drive and accept that when we make our purchases. The wandering issue (not play in the steering wheel) is a major issue on a percentage of Jl series vehicles that like to navigate themself from lane to lane.
It is a true defect and since they can’t find a fix it’s a warranty breach.
If you were in my area I would be very pleased to let you take it for a nice little drive, I truly believe you would change your thinking on this matter.

The "wandering" effect/feeling IS result of the slight "play" in the steering. Jeep characteristic.

Good luck dude

 

[Squibbles]

Because of this thread I’m getting a YJ

 

[Jennalee]

All Jeeps since the bible was written have a certain characteristic of steering. They've always handled like drunken sailors...the JL is a MASSIVE improvement. There is nothing wrong with the steering, it's a Jeep thing. It's due to design which the FCA has stated.

I had a TJ that drove perfectly straight. I sped around town in that thing and it never handled like a drunken sailor, it was very easy to drive.

 

[roaniecowpony]

While I totally disagree with KnG818, by bringing his opinion to this issue and debating against others, he made obvious that a layman's opinion on this issue is not worth the price of a pack of gum when fighting a legal position with FCA. Seek an automotive expert. I don't mean a mechanic. I mean a recognized litigation driver/engineer.

If you're not committed to that cost and effort, probably should just dump the thing for loss or pay out of pocket for full aftermarket steering. Either will be the cheaper route.

The problem is that most people think "justice" is free and is defined by getting all your money back on a bad product. It would be nice, but it ain't so in most cases.

 

[Goin2drt]

While I totally disagree with KnG818, by bringing his opinion to this issue and debating against others, he made obvious that a layman's opinion on this issue is not worth the price of a pack of gum when fighting a legal position with FCA. Seek an automotive expert. I don't mean a mechanic. I mean a recognized litigation driver/engineer.

If you're not committed to that cost and effort, probably should just dump the thing for loss or pay out of pocket for full aftermarket steering. Either will be the cheaper route.

The problem is that most people think "justice" is free and is defined by getting all your money back on a bad product. It would be nice, but it ain't so in most cases.

Well stated. I just don’t get all this fuss. If money is no object and you just want justice against FCA then fight on brother. Be prepared to spend money as you are one person going against a company that probably has hundreds on staff that just need something to do to keep their job. They will put up a damn pretty good fight.

If money is the concern I just don’t get any of you. You are talking about multiple trips to the dealer to fix this issue. The time it takes for all these trips. Are you all unemployed with nothing else to spend time on. Your time has got to be worth something per hour doesn’t it? What about the aggravation and headache? Doesn’t that matter? Also the option of dumping the Jeep. It is $5k or probably closer to $10k.

There is a simple fix. Go spend a few hours dropping your rig off at the local Indy, buy the PSC steering and spend about $3k and voila your rig is fixed. Then you can move on down the road and actually enjoy your ride.

All this fuss about parking your rig, incurring rental costs, your time value of money, your headache and the list goes on and on. Either I am old or life is too short in my mind. I spent the $3k and now driving a vehicle that I should have received from the factory. Oh well she is good now.

 

[KnG818]

While I totally disagree with KnG818, by bringing his opinion to this issue and debating against others, he made obvious that a layman's opinion on this issue is not worth the price of a pack of gum when fighting a legal position with FCA. Seek an automotive expert. I don't mean a mechanic. I mean a recognized litigation driver/engineer.

If you're not committed to that cost and effort, probably should just dump the thing for loss or pay out of pocket for full aftermarket steering. Either will be the cheaper route.

The problem is that most people think "justice" is free and is defined by getting all your money back on a bad product. It would be nice, but it ain't so in most cases.

Never ONCE gave an opinion on law or legality. Quote me on legal advise or opinion I gave. Please dont make false statements.

2nd, I am WORLDS away from "layman"(WORLDS)

I'm stating the steering in a Jeep wrangler is very different than any other vehicle. It a Jeep thing. Anyone can agree on that.

It's not an opinion that it steers and drives much different...its a fact. And to a new Jeep owner this can be a big shock to the extent they THINK something is wrong, when in fact nothing is.

This guy has been posting about this for months upon months! The FCA has already told him he has no claim as it functions properly by *design*. If it was at all unsafe or defective they would have bought it back or gave him another Jeep. That I can assure you.

All I'm telling him is hes waisting time. Hes upside down on the loan by thousands and sounds like he is looking for an excuse to get out of it.

Was trying to help him through blunt honesty. There are ways to improve the steering otherwise.

Suing the FCA for not liking the steering on his Wrangler is a HUGE waist if time.

 

[Goin2drt]

Never ONCE gave an opinion on law or legality. Quote me on legal advise or opinion I gave. Please dont make false statements.

2nd, I am WORLDS away from "layman"(WORLDS)

I'm stating the steering in a Jeep wrangler is very different than any other vehicle. It a Jeep thing. Anyone can agree on that.

It's not an opinion that it steers and drives much different...its a fact. And to a new Jeep owner this can be a big shock to the extent they THINK something is wrong, when in fact nothing is.

This guy has been posting about this for months upon months! The FCA has already told him he has no claim as it functions properly by *design*. If it was at all unsafe or defective they would have bought it back or gave him another Jeep. That I can assure you.

All I'm telling him is hes waisting time. Hes upside down on the loan by thousands and sounds like he is looking for an excuse to get out of it.

Was trying to help him through blunt honesty. There are ways to improve the steering otherwise.

Suing the FCA for not liking the steering on his Wrangler is a HUGE waist if time.

While I agree with your statement other than the bold. You are just wrong here or at least I feel your opinion is wrong because that is just what this is, your opinion NOT fact. It is NOT a Jeep thing. The Wrangler does and can drive like any other truck like or SUV. Plain and simple. There are Wranglers from the factory that do not have the "Jeep thing" steering. They drive straight and do not wander and do not have the play in the steering, THAT IS A FACT. Also with some aftermarket stuff you can actually get it to drive, steer like an SUV. I challenge anyone that wants to come on down to Lexington, they can drive my wife's 17 Grand Cherokee and then drive my modified Wrangler and you tell me if the Wrangler doesn't drive as well if not better than the GC from a steering perspective. Yes it is not as smooth as a ride but steering, wandering, hitting uneven bumps on the highway the Wrangler now does it better.

 

[KnG818]

While I agree with your statement other than the bold. You are just wrong here or at least I feel your opinion is wrong because that is just what this is, your opinion NOT fact. It is NOT a Jeep thing. The Wrangler does and can drive like any other truck like or SUV. Plain and simple. There are Wranglers from the factory that do not have the "Jeep thing" steering. They drive straight and do not wander and do not have the play in the steering, THAT IS A FACT. Also with some aftermarket stuff you can actually get it to drive, steer like an SUV. I challenge anyone that wants to come on down to Lexington, they can drive my wife's 17 Grand Cherokee and then drive my modified Wrangler and you tell me if the Wrangler doesn't drive as well if not better than the GC from a steering perspective. Yes it is not as smooth as a ride but steering, wandering, hitting uneven bumps on the highway the Wrangler now does it better.

like I said GOOD LUCK

 

[roaniecowpony]

Never ONCE gave an opinion on law or legality. Quote me on legal advise or opinion I gave. Please dont make false statements.

2nd, I am WORLDS away from "layman"(WORLDS)

I'm stating the steering in a Jeep wrangler is very different than any other vehicle. It a Jeep thing. Anyone can agree on that.

It's not an opinion that it steers and drives much different...its a fact. And to a new Jeep owner this can be a big shock to the extent they THINK something is wrong, when in fact nothing is.

This guy has been posting about this for months upon months! The FCA has already told him he has no claim as it functions properly by *design*. If it was at all unsafe or defective they would have bought it back or gave him another Jeep. That I can assure you.

All I'm telling him is hes waisting time. Hes upside down on the loan by thousands and sounds like he is looking for an excuse to get out of it.

Was trying to help him through blunt honesty. There are ways to improve the steering otherwise.

Suing the FCA for not liking the steering on his Wrangler is a HUGE waist if time.

Chris,
I didn't say you gave a legal opinion nor did I say you were a "layman". Your countering opinion on a forum where others disagree and most don't know your profession, merely reinforces that it's all argumentative and carries little weight with a legal battle until a recognized expert provides an opinion. Sorry if you didn't get that. No offense intended. If you are an attorney, you should read that clearly.

 

[KnG818]

What @Wabujitsu just said on another thread is spot on. This is my point as well - i dont care about legality as it doesnt matter. OP has no claim.

"If you have never driven a vehicle with two solid, live axles, understand that driver feedback is quite different, understand that the pitman-arm-equipped vehicles have a small “dead spot,” and DO RESEARCH AND TEST DRIVE to understand these differences before purchasing a Jeep and then bitching about how it steers.

Also know that when you drop the air pressure of your tires below recommended limit to increase your contact with the road, the sidewalls soften up, resulting in the feel of a larger dead spot.

Jeeps are designed to have more body-roll over bumps. Learn not to over-correct your steering; the “seat of the pants” feel is different. Most of the time with minor bumps your vehicle WILL track straight, without steering correction, as your Jeep body-rolls over a bump.

Jeeps are higher performance vehicles, requiring higher performance driving."

(@Wabujitsu hope you dont mind me quoting you)

 

[glang1992]

Never ONCE gave an opinion on law or legality. Quote me on legal advise or opinion I gave. Please dont make false statements.

2nd, I am WORLDS away from "layman"(WORLDS)

I'm stating the steering in a Jeep wrangler is very different than any other vehicle. It a Jeep thing. Anyone can agree on that.

It's not an opinion that it steers and drives much different...its a fact. And to a new Jeep owner this can be a big shock to the extent they THINK something is wrong, when in fact nothing is.

This guy has been posting about this for months upon months! The FCA has already told him he has no claim as it functions properly by *design*. If it was at all unsafe or defective they would have bought it back or gave him another Jeep. That I can assure you.

All I'm telling him is hes waisting time. Hes upside down on the loan by thousands and sounds like he is looking for an excuse to get out of it.

Was trying to help him through blunt honesty. There are ways to improve the steering otherwise.

Suing the FCA for not liking the steering on his Wrangler is a HUGE waist if time.

- I understand that the Jeep Wrangler is different than any other vehicle. As stated, I have had one before and numerous other FCA products.

- It is also a fact that not all JL's off the assembly line operate the same.

- Yes, I made one post months ago when this process was first starting with trips to the dealership. And I made this post for opinions on which route to take. Not for you to come in and badger people that you disagree with. Thousands of people have made it very clear that they agree this is a problem. It's clear that you do not think the steering is a problem. You've made your point clear. So, you are free to stop reiterating the same thing over and over. FCA only cares about covering their ass and their bottom line. If you read on other threads, FCA has offered replacements to select people with the same problem.

- I'm not looking for an excuse to get out of it. I made the choice to trade in my perfectly fine 2015 Ram on a Wrangler because I wanted a Wrangler. Not because I wanted a Wrangler for 6 months and then to move onto something else. I am just not okay with driving something that does not steer the same as each and every other 2018-2020 JL that has come onto the road.

- This was never about the money.

- "There are ways to improve the steering otherwise." - Why should consumers who have to pay $3000+ out of their own pocket for a stock vehicle's steering to be improved?

- It's waste, not waist.

Again, just unsubscribe from the thread and spend your time on something more productive. Like offering your opinion on a topic that can actually help someone.

 

[KnG818]

- I understand that the Jeep Wrangler is different than any other vehicle. As stated, I have had one before and numerous other FCA products.

- It is also a fact that not all JL's off the assembly line operate the same.

- Yes, I made one post months ago when this process was first starting with trips to the dealership. And I made this post for opinions on which route to take. Not for you to come in and badger people that you disagree with. Thousands of people have made it very clear that they agree this is a problem. It's clear that you do not think the steering is a problem. You've made your point clear. So, you are free to stop reiterating the same thing over and over. FCA only cares about covering their ass and their bottom line. If you read on other threads, FCA has offered replacements to select people with the same problem.

- I'm not looking for an excuse to get out of it. I made the choice to trade in my perfectly fine 2015 Ram on a Wrangler because I wanted a Wrangler. Not because I wanted a Wrangler for 6 months and then to move onto something else. I am just not okay with driving something that does not steer the same as each and every other 2018-2020 JL that has come onto the road.

- This was never about the money.

- "There are ways to improve the steering otherwise." - Why should consumers who have to pay $3000+ out of their own pocket for a stock vehicle's steering to be improved?

- It's waste, not waist.

Again, just unsubscribe from the thread and spend your time on something more productive. Like offering your opinion on a topic that can actually help someone.

I am helping....dont waste your time

 

[Punkindave]

You’ve obviously never driven a JL with the problem. If you have you would understand the issue is not the jeep thing. We all know how a jeep should drive and accept that when we make our purchases. The wandering issue (not play in the steering wheel) is a major issue on a percentage of Jl series vehicles that like to navigate themself from lane to lane.
It is a true defect and since they can’t find a fix it’s a warranty breach.
If you were in my area I would be very pleased to let you take it for a nice little drive, I truly believe you would change your thinking on this matter.

I agree.. I had a 2018 Rubicon that wandered quite a bit and I figured that it was the nature of the beast..
22 days later the entire electrical system went bat shit crazy and it couldn't be repaired. 2 months later they completed a buyback trade of a 2019 Rubicon that tracked as straight and true as a normal passenger car.. Even after a Mopar lift and some other mods, it's still very stable and tracks perfectly.
Those saying "it's a Jeep thing" have not experienced this or have accepted this unsafe and tiring behavior as normal. (It is not)

 

[Rdmitch]

I truly believe there are two distinct issues. Loose steering seems to be a real problem for many people. I have not experienced that and when I turn the steering wheel even a slight amount the jeep responds well. The second issue is the wandering lane to Lane. This is very annoying and dangerous since it’s a constant battle to keep in a straight line. Imagine driving on the freeway with semis on both sides or construction workers in an adjacent lane. Quite nerve racking.
If I didn’t have to get to work and back I would park the thing.

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