Jeep snobbery - RANT

[ThirtyOne]

I get it though...If you are trying to get a large group of people down a tough trail, it gets annoying always having to wait on the same person to be winched up multiple obstacles or have to make repairs. Requiring large tires and/or axles for a trail just reduces the chance of that short trail run becoming an all day and night event.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Look at @chevymitchell who has taken a stock Rubicon on every trail in the country. If you require experience say you require experience. But don't blame it on equipment.

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[KenPewPew]

Dude, reading the few postings about letting people join the trail run (forgive my lingo, I am still learning) and all those snobbery makes it sound like there are some really a$$holish Jeep elitist! I can understand some requirements to run certain trail but like 31 say above - stock Rubicon minimally should be able to run most trails. But to deny someone with a Jeep that is capable but does not have the parts or equipment to conform to these elitist standard is just inane.

That is sad!

 

[Col_Sanders]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Look at @chevymitchell who has taken a stock Rubicon on every trail in the country. If you require experience say you require experience. But don't blame it on equipment.

No doubt an experienced driver in a stock Rubicon can outwheel a newbie with a built one. It's easy to lie about experience, but not a vehicle's equipment. If you're leading a group of people you dont know, whats to stop one of them from saying they have done this or that trail even if they havent? I'm just talking about big events/trail runs really. Requiring certain tire sizes or lockers for certain trails is just an easy way to try and make them go smoothly.

The few trails I have led locally I just try to tell the lesser equipped vehicles the easier lines.

 

[ThirtyOne]

"Every" trail is an exaggeration obviously.

There are trails here, in UT and CA that I won't do in my buggy...they are that bad.

So, it does come down to equipment and willingness to endure the real possibility of expensive damage or personal injury.

Yes. I am talking about Jeep trails. I am saying if the average guy in a Jeep with 35 inch tires and a lift can run it, then it can be run in a stock Rubicon.

It's just not the way we do it. Everyone is welcome and we adjust the trail or the line so everybody can have a good time. I mean that's the point right?

 

[Bruce Willys]

Have any of you folks that have experienced "snobbery" about your Jeep, been turned away from a trail run b/c you didn't have the "required" (I put it in quotes b/c often times the trail leader will dictate equipment) equipment?

Has anyone with a Rubicon been turned away for the same reason (usually someone requiring 1T axles and at least 39s)?

Just wondering.......

My Fiance used to have a Renegade TrailCawk that we would take wheeling/camping occasionally. We would get dirty looks and snide comments all the time along the lines of "how'd that thing get up here". It got up here because the trail really ain't that hard, what are you guys doing up here in a lifted Rubicon on 37s that my stock Ram 1500 could drive up without issue. She likes her Feep, let her enjoy it without your insecure judgmental BS and gawking, she didn't buy it to impress you guys.

 

[KenPewPew]

I think it's simply a case of you not knowing what you don't know. That's not a bad thing....it's just like you said, you're "still learning" (as most of us are....hopefully).

I've literally run trails that were so hard I felt like I should be wearing this shirt:

Believe it or not, there are trails that require Tons and BIG fucking tires....otherwise, you are going to hate life and make everything really difficult for the people you are with...not to mention the amount of trail building/rock stacking you are going to have to do which destroys the trail and changes the environment from its largely natural state. No one wants to be a liability or the weak link; at least in my experience.

Sean, I totally get you! But c'mon at least admit that there are elitist jerks that want unnecessary features just to cross say a covered bridge! (Yes I am being sarcastic). That's what I mean by my previous post. Of course everyone should come prepared but there are always some snobbish noobs that always impose themselves on other when they know nothing!

I play video games! I know!!!

 

[nomographer]

Oh, why not...

Is that Florida ?

Can't be, there's not a hurricane in the sky.


For my straight razor I've had great success with fiber optic polishing paper. Having a couple different strop pastes really helps keep things smooth between sharpening.

The other problem with mechanical wheels and belts is the balance. A dozen strokes with too much pressure can throw the thing out of balance, so a mechanical belt is just going to leave you with a bent fin of steel and you'll have to start over, and it takes forever to go from dull or "ruined" to something usable.


ps. Worried that my new Rubicon, when it arrives, will get snide comments because others will perceive that I'm the snob. :[

 

[wibornz]

I often lead group rides. We have the attitude run what you have. We have enough winches and snatch straps to get just about anything through anything. These runs are usually geared for new Jeepers, but I have many long time Jeepers join because it is just good to be out on the trail. Sometime the trails are second to the new friends that everyone gets.

At time I do have to limit participants though, because the group gets to large. I am getting ready to cap the trail run on Nov 7th, There are already 32 Jeeps signed up plus the four Jeeps that will help me keep things going. There are an additional 41 possible Jeeps that may decide to go.

We will do approximately 40 miles by trail, end up at a scramble area. The trail is typically muddy and wet so I am sure that some will get stuck. We will also cook lunch for everyone on the side of the trail. It is to bad that we missed the peak color for the run, but we will still have fun and it is the last weekend before deer gun season starts. You do not want to be in the woods during gun season. Also our trail system is shut down for gun season. I always say let them have their two weeks, we have the other fifty weeks anyways.

 

[agpthng]

This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 2-door Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I have always loved about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort grew in importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed with the advent of JL. Perhaps the new prices make JLs too “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater number of first-time buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone overboard and turned Wrangler into a status symbol. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now feel I have to justify why I drive a Sahara, something I never had to before. Some may not realize this, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be oversensitive to it, but it is just weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify why I drove a Sahara, or whatever. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.

I've always noticed it since we got our first Jeep in 2007 - JK X one of the first ones. Rubicon owners always wanted to take us out and show us how to do it. (We've been wheeling since the 70's in a Toyota Landcruiser) When it wasn't lifted or had the original tires on it, we would get all kinds of suggestions. Now I have a 2019 JLU Sport S and still kind of see it, how come it's not lifted? Are you ever going to take it off road (This one is a little pricey compared to my JK) blah blah blah, I just nod, smile and carry on.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

It’s all a matter of perspective. I have a mildly lifted rubicon with 35s. I enjoy moderate to occasionally difficult off roading and going places inaccessible to some. I don’t care if someone buys a sport or sahara rather than a rubicon; we’re all enthusiasts. That said there is a difference in the respective capabilities of our machines...not right or wrong and certainly not a reason for snobbery. Knowing that don’t be surprised if I see an unlifted Wrangler of any type banging through the rocks without skill that I might ask the owner the state of his build out of concern. It can open the door to helpful conversation. Context for the question is important.

 

[Notorious]

How Jeep responds to so called snobbery...

Willy’s.

 

[S2k Chris]

I just got back from a long weekend in the woods hunting. My stockish Sport S on Bridgestone Duelers is covered in mud and filth and deer guts and generally looks great. I drove back home to the Chicago suburbs and park my filthy mud covered Jeeps next to the shiny lifted bro’d out Rubicon’s and it makes me happy.

It ain’t about what you’ve got, it’s about getting out there and using it. Maybe some of the bros use their lifted Rubis around here, and if so good for them. But I dare any of them to sit there in their shiny clean vastly more capable mall crawlers and tell me what I need on my mud-covered Sport that works for a living.

 

[donmontalvo]

It ain’t about what you’ve got, it’s about getting out there and using it.

Oh man spot on.

 

[wibornz]

I just got back from a long weekend in the woods hunting. My stockish Sport S on Bridgestone Duelers is covered in mud and filth and deer guts and generally looks great. I drove back home to the Chicago suburbs and park my filthy mud covered Jeeps next to the shiny lifted bro’d out Rubicon’s and it makes me happy.

It ain’t about what you’ve got, it’s about getting out there and using it. Maybe some of the bros use their lifted Rubis around here, and if so good for them. But I dare any of them to sit there in their shiny clean vastly more capable mall crawlers and tell me what I need on my mud-covered Sport that works for a living.

That actually looks relatively clean. I consider my Jeep as dirty when I return from an adventure and it takes over five hours to clean it.

 

[S2k Chris]

That actually looks relatively clean. I consider my Jeep as dirty when I return from an adventure and it takes over five hours to clean it.

Yeah it doesn’t get too filthy but there is some mud.

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