It is done, 4xe no more.

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

When you buy from a start up manufacturer that's a real risk. If it's built by the big 6 it will be serviceable for at least 50 years in my opinion and in documented history. Not to mention even the fisker owners have a network of independent shops that can service them just fine according to the fisker owners association.

I really don't think any vehicle made in the past 10 years will be serviceable for 50 years. The reason older vehicles are serviceable is because aftermarket parts can be swapped in when the OEM eventually stops making the parts.

There are too many sensors on newer vehicles and they all have to be functioning in order for the vehicle to work properly, and they are not very forgiving when it comes to modifications. As long as the software can cause a "limp mode" scenario due to a faulty sensor that would otherwise be completely unnecessary, these vehicles will not be serviceable once the OEM stops supporting them.

The JL/JT might be the exception simply due to the vast aftermarket support for them, but my opinion is you are smoking crack if you think a 2025 Toyota Corolla will be serviceable for 50 years. To each their own. I know you reference documented history but there is not 50 years of documented history on modern vehicle design, so "documented history" is completely irrelevant.

I have come across independent shops that simply will not touch modern vehicle electronics due to the complexity and pickiness of the software. So if the OEM stops servicing these vehicles and independent shops can't/won't service them, who do you expect will do the work?

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[Zandcwhite]

In my line of work (Industrial process automation and controls) I've worked on systems 30+ years old, usually with an ancient laptop running Windows XP, connected by some obscure cable you can't buy anymore, and with software that's been discontinued for ten years, at least.

I have a stack of at least ten old laptops, with various unsupported software for these tasks.

These are the systems running your water treatment plants and your power grid.

Fifty year old control systems simply are not supported anymore, everyone retrofits these with modern hardware/software.

Cars from fifty years ago were almost exclusively mechanical, with very basic electrical systems, and even more basic computing systems.

Fifty years from now, the big 6 will not have the software or hardware tools, or the trained people to service these things. The software ecosystem that runs modern vehicles is generally considered ephemeral, without foundation standards like we use in the industrial world. If you don't believe me, try taking an 80's OBD-I car to a dealer and ask them to work on it. OBD-II improved this to some extent, but the underlying code running things is very much proprietary and the OEM has no intention of supporting it fifty years from now.

(image is a PLC 3, was the workhorse of the AB controls line and where I learned the trade... came out in the mid 80's and is very hard to find parts for today, let alone software and people trained to work on it...)

And that plc can be replaced by a modern one in a few hours. Assuming we actually get to the point where OEM ECUs are unsupported (you can still buy replacements for late 80s cherokees as I did just a few years ago, but that's only 40 years. I'm sure why day now they'll be unattainable and unsupported though...), there's always aftermarket. Bruiser will swap a GM LT series into your Jeep and all sensors, computer controlled engine, transmission, and gauges work. But the aftermarket and ALL manufacturers will just abandon millions of vehicles any minute... just keep waiting.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I really don't think any vehicle made in the past 10 years will be serviceable for 50 years. The reason older vehicles are serviceable is because aftermarket parts can be swapped in when the OEM eventually stops making the parts.

There are too many sensors on newer vehicles and they all have to be functioning in order for the vehicle to work properly, and they are not very forgiving when it comes to modifications. As long as the software can cause a "limp mode" scenario due to a faulty sensor that would otherwise be completely unnecessary, these vehicles will not be serviceable once the OEM stops supporting them.

The JL/JT might be the exception simply due to the vast aftermarket support for them, but my opinion is you are smoking crack if you think a 2025 Toyota Corolla will be serviceable for 50 years. To each their own. I know you reference documented history but there is not 50 years of documented history on modern vehicle design, so "documented history" is completely irrelevant.

I have come across independent shops that simply will not touch modern vehicle electronics due to the complexity and pickiness of the software. So if the OEM stops servicing these vehicles and independent shops can't/won't service them, who do you expect will do the work?

The XJ wouldn't run without numerous sensors either, and even my 89 with the early Renault fuel injection is still serviceable with OEM and aftermarket parts still available. Sure the digital dashes and infotainment tied into seat heaters and hvac and everything else seems scary... but you can buy aftermarket head units already that integrate all of those and the factory steering wheel controls seamlessly. But I'm sure it's all days away from being discontinued. I've also never bought any vehicle with the concern of 50 years from now being an issue. We use ours. We'd be pushing a million miles if we kept it for 50 years, not to mention there'd be enough trail rash there likely would be holes wore in the frame and even the bottom of the diffs from sliding on rocks. Buy it, build it, wheel it for at most 10 years (150-200k miles) and replace it.

 

[jharp]

And that plc can be replaced by a modern one in a few hours.

Don't tell my clients that

I had an upgrade project that ran two years, replaced about 20 PLC's that ran a process chilled water system. Had to write all new code from scratch. Had to pull new network cables to replace legacy networks (like data highway) with modern Ethernet networks, as new PLCs don't support them.

 

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

The XJ wouldn't run without numerous sensors either, and even my 89 with the early Renault fuel injection is still serviceable with OEM and aftermarket parts still available. Sure the digital dashes and infotainment tied into seat heaters and hvac and everything else seems scary... but you can buy aftermarket head units already that integrate all of those and the factory steering wheel controls seamlessly. But I'm sure it's all days away from being discontinued. I've also never bought any vehicle with the concern of 50 years from now being an issue. We use ours. We'd be pushing a million miles if we kept it for 50 years, not to mention there'd be enough trail rash there likely would be holes wore in the frame and even the bottom of the diffs from sliding on rocks. Buy it, build it, wheel it for at most 10 years (150-200k miles) and replace it.

C'mon man. You are the one who said "serviceable for 50 years." I wasn't implying that you should keep your Jeeps for 50 years.

Yea, the XJ does require sensors to make sure the engine is running. I am not talking about those. I am talking things like wheel sensors that are absolutely not required for the vehicle to operate except that the software will put the vehicle into limp mode, which is an artificial failure which CANNOT be changed. It is built into the PCM.

Sure, you can do a full powertrain swap, but I am sure most rational people would agree you are no longer "servicing" the vehicle if you have to swap the entire powertrain just to keep it running.

 

[Zandcwhite]

C'mon man. You are the one who said "serviceable for 50 years." I wasn't implying that you should keep your Jeeps for 50 years.

Yea, the XJ does require sensors to make sure the engine is running. I am not talking about those. I am talking things like wheel sensors that are absolutely not required for the vehicle to operate except that the software will put the vehicle into limp mode, which is an artificial failure which CANNOT be changed. It is built into the PCM.

Sure, you can do a full powertrain swap, but I am sure most rational people would agree you are no longer "servicing" the vehicle if you have to swap the entire powertrain just to keep it running.

I still think even the 4xe would be serviceable. Cost effective to do so? Maybe not. Gen 1 prius is 30 years old and still serviceable. If I were looking long term a full BEV would be a better bet as it's super simple even compared to ICE rigs.

 

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

I still think even the 4xe would be serviceable. Cost effective to do so? Maybe not. Gen 1 prius is 30 years old and still serviceable. If I were looking long term a full BEV would be a better bet as it's super simple even compared to ICE rigs.

I understand. I still believe the primary issue you would run into is keeping the PCM happy, which is an issue regardless of the powertrain. Gen 1 Prius might be serviceable, but that is no indication of whether or not the Gen 5 will be serviceable. Time will tell.

 

[Rubi SoHo]

As was said before, the 4XE, for most, is a "passion purchase", not a think things through purchase.
For those who love their electric Jeeps, good for you. Enjoy, and be happy. Just don't get all bent out of shape when things crap out on it, it leaves you stranded, it's in the shop for months on end, or it depreciated to an insulting level. Because, you have been warned, and in theory educated on Stellantis Hybrids.

As for those that say only !ease an EV/Hybrid, the one exception might be Toyota, they seem to get it right.
Also, add, only lease a British car, never buy one. I know from experience, with a passion purchase my wife made, with a Jaguar.

I was in the market for a sedan recently. Really really wanted to buy a Jag XF 35t i came upon. Admittedly used so depreciation had already hit, but it was in immaculate shape, and a total riot to drive. They wanted like $12k for it.

But then I reminded myself that you don’t buy British cars. And settled on a boring Honda that will probably last another 15+ years.

 

[Traveller128]

I really don't think any vehicle made in the past 10 years will be serviceable for 50 years. The reason older vehicles are serviceable is because aftermarket parts can be swapped in when the OEM eventually stops making the parts.

There are too many sensors on newer vehicles and they all have to be functioning in order for the vehicle to work properly, and they are not very forgiving when it comes to modifications. As long as the software can cause a "limp mode" scenario due to a faulty sensor that would otherwise be completely unnecessary, these vehicles will not be serviceable once the OEM stops supporting them.

The JL/JT might be the exception simply due to the vast aftermarket support for them, but my opinion is you are smoking crack if you think a 2025 Toyota Corolla will be serviceable for 50 years. To each their own. I know you reference documented history but there is not 50 years of documented history on modern vehicle design, so "documented history" is completely irrelevant.

I have come across independent shops that simply will not touch modern vehicle electronics due to the complexity and pickiness of the software. So if the OEM stops servicing these vehicles and independent shops can't/won't service them, who do you expect will do the work?

Oh, anything can be serviced forever, just a question of what you need out of it...

WItness!

I mean, we're talking humans here, we can do anything.

 

[BXFXJeep]

When you can't argue the fact that is nowhere near the "fire prone" you keep claiming and barely rises to the level of a mild fire risk all you have left is "YoU dOn't own one so you Aren't aLloWed to point out the HoLes in my LogiC". I don't need to own one to have experience and I certainly don't need to own one to observe the situation, the reality of the slight fire risk, the fact that nobody has even had to pay for a battery so it's hard to argue you were scammed, or the fact that despite the recalls they still hold their value about the same as any other used car. Big picture. Real statistics. Lifetime battery warranty. All of those things matter. But you want to cherry pick and run around like chicken little, have at it. Much like my point that we are all responsible for our own financial circumstances. You took it as just "work hard"? You missed choosing a career that pays well AND is in high demand, buying a modest home as soon in life as you can and staying in it, commuting for the double benefit of maximizing wages and minimizing cost of living without having to live in high density housing, consistency, having a plan, and living below your means. No silver spoon, lucky break, or trust fund required. The profession that is the most publicized for being under paid...teaching. And yet they make up a large percentage of millionaires in this country? It's not about making the most, it's about doing the most with what you make.

The problem is you lie a lot, and make up numbers that you post.

I bought the 4xe with a 10 year expiry date, these 4xe ain't really have value once the high voltage warranty is up, JLs on the whole will generally have a short shelf life, the 4xe is only as good until the 8 or 10 year high voltage warranty is valid, the unlimited warranty on the battery doesn't mean much. Anyone that high mileage these 4xe are in for a huge wakeup call.

What is the use of a warranty when Jeep software breaks the 4xe, this last 68C recall especially is causing massive problems, something that doesn't affect you because you do not have a 4xe, you are just a troll.

Did you go trolling the JL/JT clutch failure treads also when those owners were going through a similar problem for years?

I came to Canada penniless, my family had to flee, and leave everything behind, if you were born in the US or Canada 30+ years ago, you were born with a silver spoon compared to some of us that didn't have a plastic spoon when we came here.

 

[Zandcwhite]

The problem is you lie a lot, and make up numbers that you post.

I bought the 4xe with a 10 year expiry date, these 4xe ain't really have value once the high voltage warranty is up, JLs on the whole will generally have a short shelf life, the 4xe is only as good until the 8 or 10 year high voltage warranty is valid, the unlimited warranty on the battery doesn't mean much. Anyone that high mileage these 4xe are in for a huge wakeup call.

What is the use of a warranty when Jeep software breaks the 4xe, this last 68C recall especially is causing massive problems, something that doesn't affect you because you do not have a 4xe, you are just a troll.

Did you go trolling the JL/JT clutch failure treads also when those owners were going through a similar problem for years?

I came to Canada penniless, my family had to flee, and leave everything behind, if you were born in the US or Canada 30+ years ago, you were born with a silver spoon compared to some of us that didn't have a plastic spoon when we came here.

Again only slower, I lie and make up numbers but you're telling us what 10 year old JLs and 4xe's will be worth? OK nostradamas. And we use our Jeeps. I've always assumed 0 value at ten years as they'll have 300k+ miles of being driven and wheeled hard. Jeeps hold their value better than most historically, but nothing is worth much with 300k miles on it period. Not to compare life trajectories, but with meth addicted parents and being homeless before I graduated high school I'd hardly call it a silver spoon. Are there people dealt worse hands? Absolutely. Do I feel like I made the best of my situation and have earned the success we have? Yep.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Again only slower, I lie and make up numbers but you're telling us what 10 year old JLs and 4xe's will be worth? OK nostradamas. And we use our Jeeps. I've always assumed 0 value at ten years as they'll have 300k+ miles of being driven and wheeled hard. Jeeps hold their value better than most historically, but nothing is with much with 300k miles on it period. Not to compare life trajectories, but with meth addicted parents and being homeless before I graduated high school I'd hardly call it a silver spoon. Are there people dealt worse hands? Absolutely. Do I feel like I made the best of my situation and have earned the success we have? Yep.

Why do you even need to lie?

You lying, and me having an opinion based on factual problems I, and other 4xe owners are having are two very different things.

Jeep has also neutered the electric capability of the 4xe to further prevent battery failures that can lead to fires, that will have even more of an impact on resale, think the mockery of 20 miles was bad, the little electric use of the 4xe is now being compromised

 

[Zandcwhite]

Why do you even need to lie?

You lying, and me having an opinion based on factual problems I, and other 4xe owners are having are two very different things.

Jeep has also neutered the electric capability of the 4xe to further prevent battery failures that can lead to fires, that will have even more of an impact on resale, think the mockery of 20 miles was bad, the little electric use of the 4xe is now being compromised

When did I lie? You're assuming the value or lack there of of 10 year old JLs and 4xe's is more of a lie. Calling 19 fires out of 400k vehicles fire prone is in fact a lie.

 

[BXFXJeep]

When did I lie? You're assuming the value or lack there of of 10 year old JLs and 4xe's is more of a lie. Calling 19 fires out of 400k vehicles fire prone is in fact a lie.

Jeep has been saying the 4xe is a fire risk since 2023, that's exactly why they are trying to aggressively swap out batteries before they take out charging stations or kill people.

They claim they fixed the fire risk with the first recall.....but mere months later, another recall to fix the very same fire risk because "fixed" 4xe continue to go up in flames, and then here we are again, a 3rd recall to fix the very same fire risk, this time they seem to be catching a lot more than the 1% -5% they claim, seems the replacements are upwards of 25% from crowd sourcing.

Oh ya rental companies ain't even renting their 4xe it seems

You obviously does not have a 4xe, so you are at zero risk.

Then your ghoulish lies, and mockery about people killed by the Grand Cherokee/Liberty fires.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Jeep has been saying the 4xe is a fire risk since 2023, that's exactly why they are trying to aggressively swap out batteries before they take out charging stations or kill people.

They claim they fixed the fire risk with the first recall.....but mere months later, another recall to fix the very same fire risk because "fixed" 4xe continue to go up in flames, and then here we are again, a 3rd recall to fix the very same fire risk, this time they seem to be catching a lot more than the 1% -5% they claim, seems the replacements are upwards of 25% from crowd sourcing.

Oh ya rental companies ain't even renting their 4xe it seems

You obviously does not have a 4xe, so you are at zero risk.

Then your ghoulish lies, and mockery about people killed by the Grand Cherokee/Liberty fires.

Fire risk and fire prone are two very different things. Gas is a fire risk and ICE vehicles are far more fire prone than the 4xe is. Numbers don't lie.

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