How steep can you climb?

[Terrymo]

Drive axles have differential gears so if you go around a corner the outer tire can roll farther than the inner tire,. If one tire ends up on a spot with lower traction it can spin and no torque will transfer to the other tire. If you have lockers then the differential gears get locked together to the tires are locked together. If one tire is on something slick then the other tire still gets torque and pulls the vehicle. Offroad it works the same way if you have one tire on something slick but more important offroad if you are articulating over very irregular terrain you will have one tire not pressing on the ground as hard and it will be more likely to slip, or the extreme case you will have a tire up in the air and it won't have any traction. Without lockers or some other tricks such as electronics to control the brakes, once one wheel is off the ground then the other wheel that is on the ground won't get any torque.
If you are climbing steep terrain and one wheel is off the ground or nearly off the ground you won't have much traction from that axle. With lockers you will have full torque applied to the wheel that is on the ground, but this is just one wheel not two. So in a situation where lockers are useful you are already not able to climb terrain as steep as you could if it was less irregular and lockers weren't of benefit because you are pulling with 3 wheels and not 4.

Not trying to be dense, but are you saying that you don’t have lockers and there’s no real reason to have lockers in your scenario, or that you do have lockers and in your scenario there’s an advantage to leaving your lockers off?

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[Necro]

This was pretty steep:

 

[Eyeball]

On a steep trail lockers really don't do much for you, you won't be able to climb something real steep unless you have good traction for all 4 wheels and that is not the situation where lockers are of benefit.

I think you might be in the minority with this opinion..

 

[VKSheridan]

Not trying to be dense, but are you saying that you don’t have lockers and there’s no real reason to have lockers in your scenario, or that you do have lockers and in your scenario there’s an advantage to leaving your lockers off?

Thank you for asking Terry, I’m sitting here scratching my head as well.

It sounds like he’s saying equal torque to all four corners will provide less traction than an open differential which makes no sense.

 

[c20040215]

I don't know if this is the Steepest I have tried, but at 36 degree you are basically looking straight at the sky.

But if you take a picture from the outside, it looks like its nothing more than a steep driveway lol

 

[aeonixx1001]

Still learning how to drive off road in my jeep. I try to get out once a week and try new things. I have gone to our local off road park and some of the hills seem quite steep when I am going up but then I get out and walk it and it doesn't look that bad. How steep have you climbed in your jeep? without lockers? With lockers? I know a lot plays into it such as the condition of the trail but trying to get and idea of what is possible. I am sure I haven't even come close to pushing the limits of my vehicle.

You would be surprised at the climbing ability of a Jeep. If there is a trail that looks pretty tough, it was probably a Jeep that was the first through it.

 

[Terrymo]

Thank you for asking Terry, I’m sitting here scratching my head as well.

It sounds like he’s saying equal torque to all four corners will provide less traction than an open differential which makes no sense.

I wheel with a guy with a couple of Jeeps, one of which has no lockers. Because he has decades of experience he gets stuck far less with than I do. It’s fine to say I have no lockers and I don’t feel I need them. But Im not understanding how they are a disadvantage in the scenario being described.

 

[Wabujitsu]

I’m guessing that my Jeep and the one in front of me (@Buckster) are at about 45 degrees, but I’m probably overestimating. What do y’all think?

 

[Blues Fan 30]

I’m guessing that my Jeep and the one in front of me are at about 45 degrees, but I’m probably overestimating. What do y’all think?

Based on above pics by c20040215 id say youre pretty close to that same 36 degrees. Feels straight up though when youre inside lol.

 

[jadmt]

Pitch doesn't bother me, it's roll that gives me anxiety.

ditto...31° will have you shitting.... if you have ever done flat iron mesa there is an obstacle called the intimidator and is right on the edge as you have to drive around a big outcrop that puts you looking straight out your passenger window and all you can see is the canyon down below...in reality photos do it no justice....I actually forgot to look at my tilt ometer...

 

[Wabujitsu]

Based on above pics by c20040215 id say youre pretty close to that same 36 degrees. Feels straight up though when youre inside lol.

It sure does; very butt-puckery! I was looking at the Jeep body edges and comparing that to the closest tree trunks. Those particular trees grow straight up (perpendicular to the Earth), with no lean. The angles, based on that, *look* around 45 degrees to me.

 

[jadmt]

this is around 44°

 

[txj2go]

Not trying to be dense, but are you saying that you don’t have lockers and there’s no real reason to have lockers in your scenario, or that you do have lockers and in your scenario there’s an advantage to leaving your lockers off?

Of course I could ask who understands what is in the differential, how it works, how lockers affect how it works and what this does to the tires of the vehicle. There are times when a locker doesn't do anything to the tires of the vehicle so it doesn't matter if it is on or off. I used to be a mechanic so I know what's in there and how it works. I've also seen vehicles with open differentials where one tire was limited in traction and what that caused.

Maybe I should attack this in a different way.

The Jeep will climb the best when all 4 tires are achieving maximum traction which means there is not much articulation side to side. If the Jeep is articulating side to side this will reduce traction on 2 of the tires because they are being unloaded, and this will reduce climbing ability due to 2 tires pulling 100% and 2 tires pulling less than 100%. The farther you go from all 4 tires pulling 100% the more likely lockers are to help you but they won't do anything to make a tire pull more than it can when it is being unloaded. The lockers will protect the ability of the other tires to keep pulling but at that point you are limited in how much pull you can get on 2 or 3 out of 4 tires and therefore how much slope that you can climb.

It's not too uncommon to be in uneven terrain and have the Jeep essentially balancing on 2 tires, one tire up in the air and the 4th tire barely touching the ground. In this case only 2 tires are doing all of the pulling. You won't have as much traction with 2 tires pulling as you will with 4 tires pulling but the lockers will insure that the 2 tires that have good traction can still pull.

The opposite of this is having all 4 tires pressed evenly to the ground so they can all achieve their maximum traction and in this situation lockers don't make any difference. Lockers only matter when a tire on one side is slipping, if all 4 tires are pressed evenly to the ground no individual tire is trying to slip prematurely so the tires don't know if you do or do not have lockers.

The steepest Colorado trail I've been on was climbing Round Mountain. Like a lot of Colorado trails Its surface is not optimum for traction and was almost steep enough that I could sit in one spot and spin all 4 tires. The steepest Utah trail I've been on is part of Elephant Hill. Being Utah it is a very sticky surface but the steepest parts didn't seem to provide much articulation and the Jeep drove up without much drama.

This thread was strictly about how steep can you climb, not when lockers are beneficial. The steepest you can climb will be something smooth enough that the tires don't articulate
and therefore lockers aren't a benefit. I didn't say lockers hurt anything, I don't think they ever hurt anything when you aren't on pavement but they aren't as necessary as beginners might think. I don't think they are needed until you are on 5 and greater trails such as in Utah. I don't have lockers, I don't do those trails so I have not needed them. My daughter has done trails in Colorado in her Jeep rated difficult by Wells and didn't need lockers. We were on the most difficult obstacle on Argentine Pass and she had one tire pretty far up in the air but still did the obstacle without lockers. However she wouldn't do the 5+ rated trails in Utah either.

I don't drive on frozen stuff, I don't know how much benefit there is to lockers there.

I wheel with a guy with a couple of Jeeps, one of which has no lockers. Because he has decades of experience he gets stuck far less with than I do. It’s fine to say I have no lockers and I don’t feel I need them. But Im not understanding how they are a disadvantage in the scenario being described.

I wasn't saying they were a disadvantage, they might or might not be an advantage depending on the situation. If you understand what a locker does and what that does to the tires then you have more understanding of when they are an advantage and when they are not.

I once owned a car with a welded differential, the simplest and most direct form of locker. We only drove it on pavement and when going around a corner you could hear one of the tires chirping. If you are driving a vehicle that forces one of the tires to lose traction in some situations you can understand that might not be best for traction. It would be a somewhat rare situation for this to affect offroad behaviour. I've seen some of the trails in Fins and Things where maybe this could apply.

 

[jadmt]

for me photos just never do it justice..if you see photos or videos of people going up potato salad hill they look no big deal but going up it you swear you are going over backwards...I did it once and once was enough.

 

[Wabujitsu]

this is around 44°

Jeff, just watching that video, my ass puckered up so much, I sucked in some of the leather chair I’m currently sitting on!

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