how many 3.6 engine failures

[mwilk012]

Way to hijack a thread guys!
What does any of the last 2-3 pages have anything to do with the 3.6L Pentastar?
Maybe take it private?

Comparisons to other vehicles is clearly on topic.

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[azjl#3]

No one comes to a forum after 6 months of ownership and states, "hey, I have no problems"

You only hear of the failures here.

I had a 2013 they extended the motor warranty to ten years, 100k miles. No issue with it through 20k miles.

I "heard" through some guys back in 2013, insider info, supposedly, less than tenth of a percent failure, and that triggered the TSB or warranty extension.

If it was more than that I am sure 60 minutes would have a show about it.

Thats why I am sure if the ejeep has a larger number of problems than we see here, they will up the warranty and TSB it.

 

[Tncdrew]

Comparisons to other vehicles is clearly on topic.

This one especially, right?

 

[TheRaven]

3 different sources > 1 source. Initial quality, which is every image you shared, is also irrelevant.

You are in NO position to be talking about source. YOU POSTED CONSUMER REPORTS FOR GODS SAKE!!!! Damn.

And on what standard is initial quality irrelevant? You know that JD power's initial quality study is what automakers use to evaluate their own performance vs their competition right?

It's ironic that you say this after posting "reliability" ratings. First, I never said a thing about reliability...i've been speaking on quality this whole time. The concept of "reliability" has little to do with automakers. It's a measure of how well an owner maintains their vehicle.

No, initial quality is THE standard.

Way to hijack a thread guys!
What does any of the last 2-3 pages have anything to do with the 3.6L Pentastar?
Maybe take it private?

And this is a great point. Lets get back to the discussion of the 3.6L-equipped Wrangler.

 

[Strommen95]

It's ironic that you say this after posting "reliability" ratings. First, I never said a thing about reliability...i've been speaking on quality this whole time. The concept of "reliability" has little to do with automakers. It's a measure of how well an owner maintains their vehicle.

The JL is a frikin disaster. But this illustrates very well the point I always try to hammer home in the "should I buy an extended warranty" threads - it is not the engine/transmission/suspension that you need to be worried about. It's everything else.

LOL no. I just come from the GM/Toyota world. I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I bought a Wrangler fully knowing that I was trading a "smart" and "reliable" vehicle for a tempermental but much more exciting vehicle. That was a conscious choice on my part. There is a MAJOR difference in design ethos with FCA vehicles as compared to GM/Toyota. It's easy to see how that contributes to the quality issues that are so pervasive in FCA products.

I'm sorry but the Wrangler is not remotely close to even the TOP HALF of the rankings when it comes to "most reliable new vehicles". Jeep as a brand ranks near the bottom and the Wrangler is not one of their best vehicles (the GC and Cherokee fair much better). Again, this is not something i'm complaining about, per se, it's something I accept as par for the course when you decide to prioritize "cool" over "smart".

I knew exactly what I was getting into. You on the other hand are clearly the delusional one.

Well we are crazy, that's true. But there's endless data to justify the position that the Wrangler is pretty low on the reliability spectrum. You don't have to go very far from where you are right now (back to this forum branch is all) to get that data.

Nearly every thread you involve yourself in goes off-track because you make baseless claims and then say you never said what everybody can clearly see you said. Very ironic given you throw the word delusional around.

And on what standard is initial quality irrelevant? You know that JD power's initial quality study is what automakers use to evaluate their own performance vs their competition right?

No, initial quality is THE standard.

Initial quality means almost nothing. If a vehicle doesn't hold up over one year, three years, five years, 10 + years onwards, its initial quality is irrelevant. Reliability ratings are far more important and quantifiable than initial quality. A vehicles lifespan is far more important than its first year.

You are in NO position to be talking about source. YOU POSTED CONSUMER REPORTS FOR GODS SAKE!!!! Damn.

That's a nice addition you made 30 minutes after your original post. 3 sources > 1 source, especially when I shared the same exact source you shared.

This thread has gone off rails and there's no value in trying to have a discussion with someone irrational. The 3.6 is truly a great motor and part of a dying breed for modern vehicles. While Jeeps reliability problems are overstated, it is true that the 3.6 is one of the last things on the vehicle you should worry about along with the 8 speed. The same is true for the 2.0 and 392. There's some failures because there's 200,000+ Jeeps built a year.

 

[TheRaven]

Initial quality means almost nothing. If a vehicle doesn't hold up over one year, three years, five years, 10 + years onwards, its initial quality is irrelevant. Reliability ratings are far more important and quantifiable than initial quality. A vehicles lifespan is far more important than its first year.

No. Initial quality is a measure of how a vehicle is built by it's manufacturer. "Reliability" (notice how I put that in quotes, ALL THE TIME) is a measure of how a vehicle is maintained by its owner.

I have been speaking on quality and only quality this entire time. I only used the word "reliability" in response to you and others' comments on "reliability".

This thread has gone off rails and there's no value in trying to have a discussion with someone irrational. The 3.6 is truly a great motor and part of a dying breed for modern vehicles.

You are right on both counts, there is no value in trying to discuss rational things with irrational people. I'm feeling that right now in fact...and as I said way back at the beginning, before you yanked this thread off-topic, I agree the 3.6 and 8-speed TF transmission are among the best in the business.

 

[mwilk012]

Initial quality is an opinion, and even worse, is the opinion of a consumer who is easily influenced. The only numbers that truly matter are those that we do not have access to, the total average warranty claim costs to the manufacturer.

 

[Spank]

Injector noise is not drivetrain rattle.. it's a tick vs rattle noise easy to discern.

Yeah, but I've got a faint vibration that you can feel in the steering wheel and the cabin that's been around for about a year now. It hasn't gotten any worse after thousands of miles and dozens of trail runs, but it's still there. Likewise, I sometimes get the diesel cackle for a brief moment at lower speeds when coasting and lightly touching the gas. Being in gear, neutral, or in park makes no difference, so it's definitely the engine.

The computer still reports everything is solid, so if it's not the rocker arms/lifters, I'm wondering if I've got a bad coil pack, dirty sensor, or something that's just off enough to change the feel of the engine, but not enough to throw a code.

 

[BIGW0RM]

My JLUR has the V6. It gets shit MPG. Not THAT much better than the V8 MPG. So I hope mine blows up so I can order one with the hemi next time. lol.

 

[TheRaven]

Initial quality is an opinion, and even worse, is the opinion of a consumer who is easily influenced. The only numbers that truly matter are those that we do not have access to, the total average warranty claim costs to the manufacturer.

While you can certainly hold this opinion, the consequence to it is that you have nothing to say on quality or reliability. To put it in your words, you have no "data" cause you believe the data doesn't exist.

I don't agree with this stance. I certainly cede that even JD Powers rankings aren't the end-all-be-all because they all rely on owners reporting. But it's not like they have one standard for GM and/or Toyota and a different one for FCA. It's the same system top to bottom and if you really read into the data (they publish pretty lengthy articles with all manner of detail with each IQS release), you can garner lots of information from it. You can certainly make the argument that owners of luxury vehicles expect different things from their vehicles than owners of Jeep products, but you can't make that same argument with Chevy and Ford. Same buyers.

 

[CarbonSteel]

The concept of "reliability" has little to do with automakers. It's a measure of how well an owner maintains their vehicle.

No, initial quality is THE standard.

What??

You seem to be suggesting that a PCM failing within 6 months in a new vehicle is both due to the way the owner maintained the vehicle and that because it worked when installed, but later failed is the measure of its overall quality and ultimate reliability.

 

[TheRaven]

What??

You seem to be suggesting that a PCM failing within 6 months in a new vehicle is both due to the way the owner maintained the vehicle and that because it worked when installed, but later failed is the measure of its overall quality and ultimate reliability.

No. What you are talking about all falls under the term "Initial Quality". "Vehicle reliability" is measured much later. Initial quality covers factory defects. Vehicle reliability covers problems that arise much later, and are overwhelmingly things caused by lack of maintenance and mistreatment of the vehicle. Certainly a handful of factory defects will end up in this category but it's going to be a very small percentage of the total.

 

[CarbonSteel]

No. What you are talking about all falls under the term "Initial Quality". "Vehicle reliability" is measured much later. Initial quality covers factory defects. Vehicle reliability covers problems that arise much later, and are overwhelmingly things caused by lack of maintenance and mistreatment of the vehicle. Certainly a handful of factory defects will end up in this category but it's going to be a very small percentage of the total.

I did not say or suggest any of that--you did. A part failing within 6 months would not necessarily be considered initial quality.

In addition, reliability is measured using mean time between failures and is not tied to misuse or abuse, but is the expected run time discounting both of those conditions.

When a part fails before that MTBF reliability suffers and that has nothing to do with initial quality unless defective out of the box.

 

[TheRaven]

I did not say or suggest any of that--you did. A part failing within 6 months would not necessarily be considered initial quality.

Wut. You were making a supposition about what I was saying. And it's not what I was saying. A PCM failing within six month is ABSOLUTELY an initial quality issue.

OK I think we need to clarify what we're talking about here. The "reliability" we are talking about here is a polling of owners that essentially says "how many issues have you had with your vehicle after the XX mile mark?" (that number seems to range from 50k to 80k). The "Initial quality" measure essentially says "how many issues have you had with your vehicle before the 30k mile mark?". You can certainly use the MTBF method on a vehicle that you can document extensively. But there's no way for any evaluating entity to obtain hundreds of every single vehicle made and keep them for 100k miles of use. Yeah we all understand that polling owners ain't the most reliable measure but it's the best method anyone's come up with for producing a sufficient and diverse sample size. Furthermore, all brands are subject to the same criteria and still we see great differences between them.

The spirit of the two ideas is that "initial quality" is supposed to give a real good idea of how well a vehicle is built, and "reliability" is supposed to give a real good idea of how a vehicle holds up. The problem with the latter is that once you hit the 30-40k mile mark, the way you treat and have maintained your vehicle becomes a bigger factor in how it holds up than how it was built. This is why automakers and suppliers look to initial quality and not vehicle reliability to see how they're doing vs. their competition.

 

[Mudduck]

What exactly counts as a failure? When I need a new sensor, and it runs bad.... I just let it go into Limp Mode.... Everyone knows "Limp Mode Is Pimp Mode"

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