how many 3.6 engine failures

[TheRaven]

If if it's a disaster, its the best disaster ever made.

I certainly will concede that "disaster" was a bit colorful. But it was not meant to be a scientific evaluation, obviously. It was meant to draw a vivid mental picture.

based on what data do you make this claim?

Data? LOL. You are on the same forum as I, and you own the same vehicle as I. I also assume that you are fairly "vehicle literate" and thus contain experience somewhere in the vicinity of mine (i.e. you've wrenched on your vehicle, and have also wrenched on other model vehicles in your lifetime). This, combined with the frequent perusal of this forum, is all that is needed to come to the same realization as I.

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[mwilk012]

I certainly will concede that "disaster" was a bit colorful. But it was not meant to be a scientific evaluation, obviously. It was meant to draw a vivid mental picture.



Data? LOL. You are on the same forum as I, and you own the same vehicle as I. I also assume that you are fairly "vehicle literate" and thus contain experience somewhere in the vicinity of mine (i.e. you've wrenched on your vehicle, and have also wrenched on other model vehicles in your lifetime). This, combined with the frequent perusal of this forum, is all that is needed to come to the same realization as I.

You’re falling victim to a vehicle specific form of sampling bias.

There really isn’tanything unique about the way a JL is built or designed, compared to either older generations or other modern SUV’s and trucks.

 

[TheRaven]

You’re falling victim to a vehicle specific form of sampling bias.

There really isn’tanything unique about the way a JL is built or designed, compared to either older generations or other modern SUV’s and trucks.

No bias, no victim. The JL is not unique among FCA vehicles, but it is somewhat unique among all vehicles in that it is poorly designed from a architecture standpoint. Furthermore, it suffers from a severe lack of quality control. This is reflected in the extensive issues you see discussed here regularly and its poor quality ratings.

 

[mwilk012]

No bias, no victim. The JL is not unique among FCA vehicles, but it is somewhat unique among all vehicles in that it is poorly designed from a architecture standpoint. Furthermore, it suffers from a severe lack of quality control. This is reflected in the extensive issues you see discussed here regularly and its poor quality ratings.

How so? The body on frame design? Ancient. The CAN network? Used on every vehicle in America. Are you a regular on any other vehicle forums? It's the same old whining on every single one.

 

[TheRaven]

How so? The body on frame design? Ancient. The CAN network? Used on every vehicle in America.

Sure. But the subbed-out-to-the-lowest-bidder infotainment system? Unique to FCA. The Patchwork module layout? Also an FCA hallmark. The rushed connector assembly? The hit-or-miss quality control? The cheap-as-possible paint job? The lack of corrosion buffers in between dissimilar metals? You guessed it - good 'ole FCA. This list goes on and on. Fortunately, as mentioned, very little of it affects the drivetrain, and that's why we are in agreement there. Really, both the 3.6 and 2.0 drivetrains are among the best in the business.

Are you a regular on any other vehicle forums? It's the same old whining on every single one.

Countless, and no, NONE of them come close to the chronic issues you see discussed here. Yes, forums are a place where you go to discuss problems, so even on the GM and Toyota forums you will see endless discussion about issues. But when you read into those discussions you see stark differences on those forums. For automakers like GM and Toyota, there are generally one or two well known, chronic issues (per model) that are discussed repeatedly. But for every one of them, it takes a model year or two until the fix is found and remedied by the automaker, and in the vast majority of cases, the automaker takes care of the problem for the "early adopters". Like the timing chain stretch issue on the GM HFV6 or the AFM/DFM issues on the SBCs - the HFV6 now has a lifetime warranty from GM and GM is paying owners half the cost to fix the AFM implosion on trucks going all the way back to model year 2007. These are trucks that often have 200k+ miles on them and GM is shelling out $3k completely out of warranty. The JL has a long list of well-known issues that have existed since 2018 and FCA doesn't even want to pick up the phone let alone actually address them. The worst part is that many of these issues are actually really cheap to fix at scale - not like a near-complete redesign of an engine like GM faced with the aforementioned issues.

The moral of the story here is that every modern vehicle has it's problems, especially with all the tech we've demanded automakers saddle them with, but Jeep continually scores near the bottom in quality consistently and it's largely because of the lack of support from FCA.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

"The worst part is that many of these issues are actually really cheap to fix at scale - not like a near-complete redesign of an engine like GM faced with the aforementioned issues"

That's what makes the Jeep pretty special. It's a simple design, chassis wise, and there's one issue really with the engine, the rocker/lifters.

I've already replaced all of the chassis parts on mine so the only thing left to worry about is the driveline. The 8-speed auto has been pretty bulletproof afaik (I own the manual trans).

I was going to buy a subaru sti back in 2007 (ended up with a mustang) but their forum and issues scared the hell out of me.

 

[TheRaven]

That's what makes the Jeep pretty special. It's a simple design, chassis wise, and there's one issue really with the engine, the rocker/lifters.

Well sure, but you still have the infotainment system random deaths that'll run you $2k, and the "pull over vehicle will shut off" nightmare that can cost anywhere from a few hundred to infinity dollars, the non-replaceable sensors that quit, the hinge corrosion that requires repainting of any number of panels, and a manufacturer that will do everything it can to avoid you when you come back with any of these issues.

The 3.6l is a major redeeming quality of the JL and one of the bigger secondary reasons I didn't get the 2.0l. At the very least I know it's very unlikely i'll ever have to deal with a major engine/transmission issue, and I also won't have to deal with replacement of the turbo or any of it's ancillary gear when the mileage starts getting up there. That's certainly worth mentioning.

 

[djxizodu]

Hold on...I think maybe you want to qualify that statement a bit. Perhaps if you said "Pentastar JK and JL DRIVETRAINS are some of the most reliable that exist" then yes, I think you are probably right. But as a total vehicle? Hell no. The JL is a frikin disaster. But this illustrates very well the point I always try to hammer home in the "should I buy an extended warranty" threads - it is not the engine/transmission/suspension that you need to be worried about. It's everything else.

Based on your other posts I’d say you are pretty delusional on what makes a good car a good car. If the JL is a “disaster” then every other car out there is a mass extension, meteor hits the earth, event.

All new cars are heavy into technology that makes them quirky, usually it’s operator preferences that makes someone not like a vehicle or not. While you may not like the JL interface, as far as vehicles go it’s the most reliable new vehicle that exists.

the only person who can fix all the issues I have with any car is myself. Because it’s personal preferences on how things should operate.

I’m guessing you are one of the guys who takes a vehicle back for warranty work if a plastic piece in the interior squeaks or if one time the transmission does some odd shift, or if you swear you can feel a misfire etc etc. but you never fix or work on anything yourself.

 

[TheRaven]

Based on your other posts I’d say you are pretty delusional on what makes a good car a good car. If the JL is a “disaster” then every other car out there is a mass extension, meteor hits the earth, event.

All new cars are heavy into technology that makes them quirky, usually it’s operator preferences that makes someone not like a vehicle or not. While you may not like the JL interface, as far as vehicles go it’s the most reliable new vehicle that exists.

the only person who can fix all the issues I have with any car is myself. Because it’s personal preferences on how things should operate.

I’m guessing you are one of the guys who takes a vehicle back for warranty work if a plastic piece in the interior squeaks or if one time the transmission does some odd shift, or if you swear you can feel a misfire etc etc. but you never fix or work on anything yourself.

LOL no. I just come from the GM/Toyota world. I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I bought a Wrangler fully knowing that I was trading a "smart" and "reliable" vehicle for a tempermental but much more exciting vehicle. That was a conscious choice on my part. There is a MAJOR difference in design ethos with FCA vehicles as compared to GM/Toyota. It's easy to see how that contributes to the quality issues that are so pervasive in FCA products.

I'm sorry but the Wrangler is not remotely close to even the TOP HALF of the rankings when it comes to new vehicle quality. Jeep as a brand ranks near the bottom and the Wrangler is not one of their best vehicles (the GC and Cherokee fair much better). Again, this is not something i'm complaining about, per se, it's something I accept as par for the course when you decide to prioritize "cool" over "smart".

I knew exactly what I was getting into. You on the other hand are clearly the delusional one.

 

[mwilk012]

LOL no. I just come from the GM/Toyota world. I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I bought a Wrangler fully knowing that I was trading a "smart" and "reliable" vehicle for a tempermental but much more exciting vehicle. That was a conscious choice on my part. There is a MAJOR difference in design ethos with FCA vehicles as compared to GM/Toyota. It's easy to see how that contributes to the quality issues that are so pervasive in FCA products.

I'm sorry but the Wrangler is not remotely close to even the TOP HALF of the rankings when it comes to "most reliable new vehicles". Jeep as a brand ranks near the bottom and the Wrangler is not one of their best vehicles (the GC and Cherokee fair much better). Again, this is not something i'm complaining about, per se, it's something I accept as par for the course when you decide to prioritize "cool" over "smart".

I knew exactly what I was getting into. You on the other hand are clearly the delusional one.

Car owners are crazy. There’s just no data to justify the position that the wrangler is somehow unreliable.

 

[jonyothan]

I work on pentastars at work except on ram promaster application instead of jeep. the only difference that i know of is the intake manifold and obviously transverse mounted vs longitudinal in the jeep. the most common failures i see is the camshaft issues and headgaskets around 250-300k kilometers. nothing catastrophic though

 

[Deleted member 59498]

I had a 2019 Silverado Trailboss, brakes stopped working (thankfully in a parking lot) had recalls every month for the first few months and finally got tired of going to the dealer and traded it for a 2020 JL. I have owned 8 Jeeps none have broken down on me. So Chevy sucks and Jeep rulez!

I owned a 2016 4Runner also, completely free of problems besides airbags. But the 4.0 is kind of lackluster and 21 years old or so? The 3.5 has no balls in the new Tacoma either much like the 4.0.

 

[mwilk012]

I had a 2019 Silverado Trailboss, brakes stopped working (thankfully in a parking lot) had recalls every month for the first few months and finally got tired of going to the dealer and traded it for a 2020 JL. I have owned 8 Jeeps none have broken down on me. So Chevy sucks and Jeep rulez!

I owned a 2016 4Runner also, completely free of problems besides airbags. But the 4.0 is kind of lackluster and 21 years old or so? The 3.5 has no balls in the new Tacoma either much like the 4.0.

Toyota’s, other than the V8’s, are all terribly gutless, but I’m not sure if the engine or the outdated transmissions are to blame. Probably both.

The Jeep is by far our best driving vehicle, much more enjoyable.

 

[Swisskidd]

Car owners are crazy. There’s just no data to justify the position that the wrangler is somehow unreliable.

My uncle worked in the Toyota service drive in the 1970’s. He always said “most of the car’s issues are between the steering wheel and headrest”.

Just picked up my 23 JL Sport. The seat release lever already quit working (appears as cables got disconnected).
Is it annoying - yes. Should this not happen - 100%. Will I go to the dealer to complain - likely not (will first try to fix it myself as I’m afraid I will have to deal with something else once the dealer has his fingers in it).
I think these are the type of issues that will drive some owners (possibly rightly so) over the edge and leave bad reviews where ever they can. While a more DIY inclined owner like myself (how knows what a Wrangler is about and is willing to overlook the annoyances to a large degree), will just shrug it off.

Mainstreaming the Cool-Factor of the Wrangler has certainly attracted clientele that comes with the assumption that the Wrangler will act and behave like any other vehicle in its segment. Many make the learning experience after the purchase and express their disappointment online, where ever possible.

 

[TheRaven]

Car owners are crazy. There’s just no data to justify the position that the wrangler is somehow unreliable.

Well we are crazy, that's true. But there's endless data to justify the position that the Wrangler is pretty low on the quality spectrum. You don't have to go very far from where you are right now (back to this forum branch is all) to get that data.

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