General thoughts on ICE depreciation?

[vegasblue]

My feeling is operating an EV in the future is going to become far more expensive than it is now. I question if the cost will rise to the point where owning a personal vehicle will go the way of the dodo bird. The powers that be will want their money and the impact of losing all the tax revenue from gasoline sales will be sizable. Upgrading the electric grid will cost into the trillions to span from sea to shinging sea. I can't see a future where buying an EV will continue to net you a rebate or tax credit, that program will end. Just those three alone will price out the lower to mid-range middle class. I see this transition as being far more from ICE to EV, but from personal transportation to publicly owned transportation systems. To be clear, not in my lifetime and probably moons and moons into the future.
It's been said here that current EV offerings are transitory and I agree. There are real environmental costs to battery production. On the plus side, I see this as hugely beneficial to battery development. I just pray that extensive damage equating to or even exceeding current conditions do not come to fruition. Charging times and range will improve rapidly no doubt about it. Right now however a battery is only a container for energy, it does not produce it. Once that dilemma is rectified, then we will see what a true zero emmisions vehicle will look like. Current regeneration is only a stop gap.

For me:
I would like to own an EV, I really do like the Rivian R1T and even a bit more the R1S but the costs to put a third vehicle in the stable far outweigh the benefits. My Jeep would be the vehicle to get the axe and that right now is not an option I am willing to entertain. I've worked very hard to be in a zero debt situation and I cannot picture the benefits of taking debt to have one. Now, if a company arises from the ashes that offers three electric motors of varying power to choose from, three batteries offering varying range, and a wiring harness which makes a heart transplant in ANY rolling chassis you desire a three to five banana job, then I could see myself in an EV "you fill in the blank here". For me, it would be MY 2021 Jeep EV JLUR. If I'm going zero emmissions, I want the chassis and body of my choice.

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[Pinky Tuscadero]

You better hurry up and get that back up lawn mower engine—gas powered small engines are also being banned. I went to get a new power head for my yard combo last week—Nope— electric small tools only (and expensive)

Once again California is way ahead in wackyness
This is the State which set the trend for toilets that don't flush, faucets that can't fill a sink, gas cans that don't pour, showerheads that leave us dry, washing machines that don't get the clothes wet enough to actually clean anything, and all sorts of other nonsense that may make sense a bit more out there, but are totally useless here and very annoying.
Honestly now, why doesn't anyone out there speak up against this BS ?
Just blowing off steam - lol

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Solar panels are the least efficient form of electricity. Just like Electric vehicles the government is pushing them and adding rebates to make people buy them. The most efficient is nuclear, and they Hydro. Solar panels are horrible looking and a complete waste of money. To me they are like electric vehicles. Look at me, I'm saving the environment.

I love having Solar on both of my homes as my wife and I lived through a pretty nasty ice storm several years ago and our town was without power for 9 days and our home never missed a beat.

It may very well be the least efficient form of energy but now I am not dependent on the grid for my power and heating/cooling plus my vehicles are getting charged thanks to the sun.

Pretty happy with my investments

 

[JEEPmole]

Have you priced used teslas lately?
All of the fiat 500s are garbage when they exit the factory EV or not.

Garbage, maybe...but they were affordable. What affordable EVs have great resale value?

Teslas aren't particularly inexpensive vehicles. Right now they're a popular and premium car that people see as a status symbol vehicle, which makes them desirable. You can look rich, while at the same time appear to be doing good and saving the environment. The initial cost of the vehicle, and its desirability and resale value means that it might be worth it to replace a $20k battery in order to keep it running. Can the same be said for other less expensive EVs?

Wrangler buyers aren't really cross shopping Teslas.

I'm not sure what the point of your initial post actually is. To argue that all ICE vehicles will soon be worthless? To troll a Jeep forum? IMO, until people can buy an affordable (in the <$35k range) EV with two doors, a convertible top, 500 miles range, great looks, and the ability to perform exceptionally off-road, I believe that Wranglers and other ICE vehicles will hold value.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Garbage, maybe...but they were affordable. What affordable EVs have great resale value?

Teslas aren't particularly inexpensive vehicles. Right now they're a popular and premium car that people see as a status symbol vehicle, which makes them desirable. You can look rich, while at the same time appear to be doing good and saving the environment. The initial cost of the vehicle, and its desirability and resale value means that it might be worth it to replace a $20k battery in order to keep it running. Can the same be said for other less expensive EVs?

Wrangler buyers aren't really cross shopping Teslas.

I'm not sure what the point of your initial post actually is. To argue that all ICE vehicles will soon be worthless? To troll a Jeep forum? IMO, until people can buy an affordable (in the <$35k range) EV with two doors, a convertible top, 500 miles range, great looks, and the ability to perform exceptionally off-road, I believe that Wranglers and other ICE vehicles will hold value.

ICE vehicle will stay extremely important as long as EVs have such limitations

 

[jjvincent]

I'm not sure what the point of your initial post actually is. To argue that all ICE vehicles will soon be worthless? To troll a Jeep forum?

That's the topic. If you read the OP, this was put on a Rivian forum. So it's to just stir up poop. might as well create a new name and ask the question, "Just drove a bronco and it's awesome, talk me out of it."

 

[av8or]

Garbage, maybe...but they were affordable. What affordable EVs have great resale value?

Teslas aren't particularly inexpensive vehicles. Right now they're a popular and premium car that people see as a status symbol vehicle, which makes them desirable. You can look rich, while at the same time appear to be doing good and saving the environment. The initial cost of the vehicle, and its desirability and resale value means that it might be worth it to replace a $20k battery in order to keep it running. Can the same be said for other less expensive EVs?

Wrangler buyers aren't really cross shopping Teslas.

I'm not sure what the point of your initial post actually is. To argue that all ICE vehicles will soon be worthless? To troll a Jeep forum? IMO, until people can buy an affordable (in the <$35k range) EV with two doors, a convertible top, 500 miles range, great looks, and the ability to perform exceptionally off-road, I believe that Wranglers and other ICE vehicles will hold value.

Honestly I’m not here to argue with anybody or troll. I am definitely biased and I freely admit that in the original post. Since I’ve started looking into EVs and educating myself, some of these things I was not aware of I thought might be interesting to others as well and we could have a discussion. I’ve shared a few of my views and shared a couple of articles to show we could be entering some kind of disruption in the automotive world, and this is an automotive forum. If you don’t like my opinions I respect that. As far as the articles go, don't shoot the messenger. I am a wrangler owner and I’m also very interested in EVs, so yes some may cross shop. Have a wonderful day.

 

[2nd 392]

Agreed! The point that some people aren’t getting when we talk about environment is that we only have one earth one environment! So when you want to implement changes we are all gonna need to get onboard or realistically you ain’t improving shit to be honest!! When president trump pulled out of that all Paris climate change agreement is simply cause we were cutting back while other countries who weren’t part of the agreement were polluting and we were paying out the ass for stuff that they were producing for Pennie’s on the dollar cause of our restrictions here in the states

Not to mention, there are 23 volcanoes presently erupting with many more active with eruption warnings. Your Wrangler pollutes? Paris what?

 

[four low]

My feeling is operating an EV in the future is going to become far more expensive than it is now. I question if the cost will rise to the point where owning a personal vehicle will go the way of the dodo bird. The powers that be will want their money and the impact of losing all the tax revenue from gasoline sales will be sizable. Upgrading the electric grid will cost into the trillions to span from sea to shinging sea. I can't see a future where buying an EV will continue to net you a rebate or tax credit, that program will end. Just those three alone will price out the lower to mid-range middle class. I see this transition as being far more from ICE to EV, but from personal transportation to publicly owned transportation systems. To be clear, not in my lifetime and probably moons and moons into the future.
It's been said here that current EV offerings are transitory and I agree. There are real environmental costs to battery production. On the plus side, I see this as hugely beneficial to battery development. I just pray that extensive damage equating to or even exceeding current conditions do not come to fruition. Charging times and range will improve rapidly no doubt about it. Right now however a battery is only a container for energy, it does not produce it. Once that dilemma is rectified, then we will see what a true zero emmisions vehicle will look like. Current regeneration is only a stop gap.

For me:
I would like to own an EV, I really do like the Rivian R1T and even a bit more the R1S but the costs to put a third vehicle in the stable far outweigh the benefits. My Jeep would be the vehicle to get the axe and that right now is not an option I am willing to entertain. I've worked very hard to be in a zero debt situation and I cannot picture the benefits of taking debt to have one. Now, if a company arises from the ashes that offers three electric motors of varying power to choose from, three batteries offering varying range, and a wiring harness which makes a heart transplant in ANY rolling chassis you desire a three to five banana job, then I could see myself in an EV "you fill in the blank here". For me, it would be MY 2021 Jeep EV JLUR. If I'm going zero emmissions, I want the chassis and body of my choice.

I am hoping the EV kit, the ability to retrofit your existing ICE vehicle to EV, becomes a real option.
The "Teaser" Magneto certainly hints at this; Ford is offering Electric motor kits for just this purpose, GM also, and retrofitting older ICE vehicles is gaining traction in Europe.
Fingers and Paws Crossed we see this in the next 5 years, or sooner

 

[BrokenDana35]

The ICE will appreciate.

Now’s your last chance to buy your 392 rubicon, 3.6L JL with manual trans, hellcats, Shelby’s, ZL1’s, etc.

 

[zouch]

pretty poor logic if you're trying to justify not making an effort to make an improvement or keep making things worse.
is that the sort of logic you try to use with your kids? or they try to use with you?
does it work?

Not to mention, there are 23 volcanoes presently erupting with many more active with eruption warnings. Your Wrangler pollutes? Paris what?

 

[John VonJeep]

As long as gas is widely available, ICE vehicles will retain excellent value in the long run.

I have nothing against EVs, but some EV types seem to see this as some Autobots vs Decepticons struggle.

Why not both?

 

[2nd 392]

pretty poor logic if you're trying to justify not making an effort to make an improvement or keep making things worse.
is that the sort of logic you try to use with your kids? or they try to use with you?
does it work?

Significant improvements have been made, it has gotten much better in this country. Laws, regulations and restrictions have been passed that made huge improvements at a financial cost and sometimes unintended consequences. Then more were passed, then more, more, with increasingly smaller improvements at more and more cost. It is Never Enough!!! To the point of symbolism over substance when considering China,India and other polluting countries and yes Volcanoes!! Rant previously expressed with humor.Edit, If a tech invents cost effective improvements that don’t further degrade this country’s international competitiveness and therefore our economy - great.

 

[zouch]

my apologies; if there was humor intended in that earlier bit, i completely missed it.

we're terribly off-topic here, so i'll try to keep it brief.

here, i agree with you up to a point, but then it seems like you're spiraling up to a perspective i can't agree with.

yes, the initial gains were the 'low hanging fruit'; things always get harder after that.
Western civilization made significant advances over some of the other countries you mention, while doing some significant damage. now those other countries are complaining that they should have the same rights to "catch up" and advance their well-being at the same costs; by their views they might have a fair argument.


we all have to decide at a personal level where the balance is between advancing our own desires vs the damage we do. whether it's removing the Cat and Evap Emissions Canister on our cool moto (no i didn't), doing a 'Delete' on our diesels (no, i didn't), or buying the cheapest fuel we can find instead of a Biofuel that burns cleaner but yields lower MPG (OK, i do this about 50% of the time), it comes down to: what are we doing to the world we're borrowing from our children?
how do we explain to them why we didn't make every effort we could?

point is, most of us here are already doing pretty dang well by World standards.
doing the Right Thing for the Greater Good might take some effort on out part and require us to make some sacrifices. we can probably afford it in the short term. we can't afford not to in the long term.

Significant improvements have been made, it has gotten much better in this country. Laws, regulations and restrictions have been passed that made huge improvements at a financial cost and sometimes unintended consequences. Then more were passed, then more, more, with increasingly smaller improvements at more and more cost. It is Never Enough!!! To the point of symbolism over substance when considering China,India and other polluting countries and yes Volcanoes!! Rant previously expressed with humor.Edit, If a tech invents cost effective improvements that don’t further degrade this country’s international competitiveness and therefore our economy - great.

 

[2nd 392]

my apologies; if there was humor intended in that earlier bit, i completely missed it.

we're terribly off-topic here, so i'll try to keep it brief.

here, i agree with you up to a point, but then it seems like you're spiraling up to a perspective i can't agree with.

yes, the initial gains were the 'low hanging fruit'; things always get harder after that.
Western civilization made significant advances over some of the other countries you mention, while doing some significant damage. now those other countries are complaining that they should have the same rights to "catch up" and advance their well-being at the same costs; by their views they might have a fair argument.


we all have to decide at a personal level where the balance is between advancing our own desires vs the damage we do. whether it's removing the Cat and Evap Emissions Canister on our cool moto (no i didn't), doing a 'Delete' on our diesels (no, i didn't), or buying the cheapest fuel we can find instead of a Biofuel that burns cleaner but yields lower MPG (OK, i do this about 50% of the time), it comes down to: what are we doing to the world we're borrowing from our children?
how do we explain to them why we didn't make every effort we could?

point is, most of us here are already doing pretty dang well by World standards.
doing the Right Thing for the Greater Good might take some effort on out part and require us to make some sacrifices. we can probably afford it in the short term. we can't afford not to in the long term.

This is an old but perfect example of my perspective, the numbers are not exact but close. I have a home in a foothill community serviced by a local water district. The small water districts were required to install very expensive equipment to remove ~90% of heavy metals like mercury and lead with us ratepayers paying but it was a good investment for health. It wasn’t too long before something new was developed that could remove ~3% more and there was tremendous pressure for the small districts to install this very expensive equipment for a Whole Three Percent, but they won the fight as I recall. We are at about this point on other emissions issues. Also, have you ever heard of the “the year without a summer”? Around 1813-1818 a volcanic eruption in the South Pacific put enough particulate matter into the atmosphere to so block the sun to cause it and the accompanying crop failures, famine, freezing temperatures and death. Don’t underestimate Volcanoes! Edit- Mt Tambora, Indonesia, 1815. 38 cubic miles of magma and ash.Your Wrangler pollutes?? Couldn’t resist

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