General thoughts on ICE depreciation?

[skiptheroad]

I purchased solar panels for my home in Maryland for $36,000. After all of the Federal and State rebates I ended up paying $26,000. I did the research and my break even time will be in roughly 9 years. I then started thinking why not an EV for my personal vehicle. I am a self employed HVAC contractor so my days are in a 10,000 lb Ford Transit 3.2 powerstroke cutaway van. I purchased a Mustang Mach-E for $56,000 which qualified for a $7,500 tax credit. I purchased the vehicle in June 2021. Everything was absolutely amazing. 240+ miles on an 80% charge , I have a 240 volt 40 amp home charging station at my house. With the Solar Panels I was amazed with my new EV. I drove to Detroit and Louisville with my EV and while super charging was a tad inconvenient it wasn't unbearable. Although the cost at Electrify America seemed to vary widely. Along came the winter months and my range dropped to around 150 miles on a 80% charge. That's with a new extended range battery. I started thinking about battery degradation and knew I had to dump my EV asap. Luckily in our current auto market I sold it for $55,000 with 9k miles on it. So after the tax credit that I received I profited. In my driveway now sits a Rubicon EcoDiesel. I am all for EV vehicles but in my case and climate the technology isn't there. I can't imagine how you could own an EV anywhere the temperature drops below 20°. My Rubicon doesn't care if it's 20°outside it still provides warmth in the cabin without cutting my range in half.

This is really good real world experience. Thanks for sharing.

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[roaniecowpony]

It'll be interesting to see if the cold temperature issues are addressed as these evolve. Right now, these things will get people stranded and there's likely to be an attrition price on human life. These city politicians and tree huggers can't see the forest because their big green lips are flapping.

 

[40Caliber]

 

[2nd 392]

It'll be interesting to see if the cold temperature issues are addressed as these evolve. Right now, these things will get people stranded and there's likely to be an attrition price on human life. These city politicians and tree huggers can't see the forest because their big green lips are flapping.

Do you really think politicians care about that “price”! — They aren’t looking for the forest when flapping symbolism over substance for the emotional effect on their targeted audience either!

 

[2nd 392]

You have been added to the “proposal accepted” list. All volunteers of “Your Kind” readily accepted— present administration.

 

[blkout50]

I think you are looking at this problem all wrong. Vehicles are a tool to get you from point A to point B. Don’t worry about the depreciation of ICE vehicles. Vehicles with ICE, PHEV and EV’s will depreciate. Nothing that we can do about it.

Where you should focus is on investing in the markets that support the current and future energy infrastructure. The Government is going to spend trillions of dollars on the energy infrastructure to support their agenda. A lot of people will profit (get rich) from all this money. The profits you earn will more than offset the depreciation losses you will take on vehicles with ICE, PHEV and EV.

 

[JEEPmole]

How much is an electric vehicle worth in 5 - 10 years? Fiat 500 electrics in the us went to the landfill soon after the warranty period was up, or were worthless because the price of replacement batteries exceeded the value of the car.

 

[Antonio]

100% agree. Between EV prices and our lacking infrastructure, it will take much longer than 2030.
I'm considering a PHEV/ EV Jeep for my "Next Jeep", but I don't see EV's becoming commonplace for a while.
And when you consider the term "carbon footprint" was more or less created to shift the responsibility to the individual consumer while various industries still consume copious amounts of fossil fuel and turn out exponentially more pollution than consumer vehicles- There are plenty of other areas that can tighten up first where we will see far more positive impact first. Because(as mentioned) there are plenty of people who can't afford EV/PHEV's even if they're used and have no other preferences.

Agreed! The point that some people aren’t getting when we talk about environment is that we only have one earth one environment! So when you want to implement changes we are all gonna need to get onboard or realistically you ain’t improving shit to be honest!! When president trump pulled out of that all Paris climate change agreement is simply cause we were cutting back while other countries who weren’t part of the agreement were polluting and we were paying out the ass for stuff that they were producing for Pennie’s on the dollar cause of our restrictions here in the states

 

[DocTwinkie]

In terms of efficiency, not MPG but purely how much energy of the fuel makes it to the road vs being lost as heat and waste ICE engines have nothing on electricity.

ICE engines loose a massive amount of the energy in gasoline to wasted heat and friction.

But pound for pound even with that waste gasoline goes much further… it’s simply far mor energy dense.

Once batteries come close to the energy density of gasoline there just won’t be any competition. When will that happen? Dunno. But it’s being worked on. Charging is limited by the heat in the copper. But even that has solutions.


It’s not a question of if electricity will replace ICE. It’s when.


This vid goes into energy density… but not efficiency. So batteries don’t need to get as close in density to match gasoline because they are markedly more efficient.

for instance he points out one gallon of gas has the energy of the entire first Nissan Leaf batter pack. That actually impressive from an electricity efficiency standpoint that the leaf could go as far as it could on essentially a gallon of gas.

My way of saying yes, Ice will be obsolete. Not if. It’s when. But when is probably a while due mainly to cost and infrastructure.

 

[jjvincent]

i find it very interesting that Saudi Arabia is investing as heavily in EVs as they have.

When I was growing up, there were rumors of the 200mpg carb you could put on your car. When nobody could get one the conspiracy was, The Saudis bought him out because they wanted to keep selling oil.

Only if I had that 200mph carb because if I could have added the fuel line magnets and the tornado for the intake, I'd have a 250mpg Jeep.

 

[jellis4148]

Solar panels are the least efficient form of electricity. Just like Electric vehicles the government is pushing them and adding rebates to make people buy them. The most efficient is nuclear, and they Hydro. Solar panels are horrible looking and a complete waste of money. To me they are like electric vehicles. Look at me, I'm saving the environment.

 

[av8or]

How much is an electric vehicle worth in 5 - 10 years? Fiat 500 electrics in the us went to the landfill soon after the warranty period was up, or were worthless because the price of replacement batteries exceeded the value of the car.

Have you priced used teslas lately?
All of the fiat 500s are garbage when they exit the factory EV or not.

 

[Sublime]

Agreed! The point that some people aren’t getting when we talk about environment is that we only have one earth one environment! So when you want to implement changes we are all gonna need to get onboard or realistically you ain’t improving shit to be honest!! When president trump pulled out of that all Paris climate change agreement is simply cause we were cutting back while other countries who weren’t part of the agreement were polluting and we were paying out the ass for stuff that they were producing for Pennie’s on the dollar cause of our restrictions here in the states

When "getting onboard" is not just supporting a money grab by people politically connected to Big Green you might sway some opinions. Til then, it's obvious who's benefiting and it isn't us or the planet.

 

[rayvonp]

The more people who have icemakers in their houses will see the cost of bags of ice go down in price. I am an old fashion guy prefer to fill the ice cube trays and put them in the freezer and twisting them to crack them to have that satisfying feeling if ice falling into my cup.

 

[BXFXJeep]

I dumped a pristine 2018 JLU in November for a 4xe.

I pretty much got what I paid for it, got the 4xe for 5% under MSRP.

I am mostly city, I used to get about 400km per tank.

Now for every 1,000km on free electric, I do 200km on paid gas at close to $6USD a gallon.

I do not have a charger since I live in a condo, but there are a couple of free chargers nearby that I top up, moist of my trips are around 10-12km or 30-40% battery.

Ideally life would be cheaper and simpler if I had a full blown EV rather than a PHEV, but that means I would not be driving a Wrangler, and I tried that scheme a couple of times in the past and regretted it when I saw a Wrangler.

Gas will only keep going up in Canada at least, so it really doesn't make sense for me to use an ICE anymore.

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