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guarnibl

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This is a great vision. and one I agree with. But there is a significant snag with it: workers. The US does not have the workforce domestically to produce all that stuff (and more) regardless of cost.

before this pandemic, there were hundreds of thousands of jobs — good jobs — from truck drivers to welders to factory workers to skilled trades to... that were infilled. We (had) the jobs but we didn’t have the employees who could pass a drug test /criminal background and show up every day to work for a decent wage. If we try (and we should) to re-engage in manufacturing in this country, we have some very basic questions to ask and answer: where will we get the millions of new workers to fill those jobs?
This will change after this. As will our immigration policy to address it. It probably won't be overnight, but we'll certainly see significant deglobalization from it. But it will take decades.
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Dkretden

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This will change after this. As will our immigration policy to address it. It probably won't be overnight, but we'll certainly see significant deglobalization from it. But it will take decades.
There is a really strong argument to make that you are absolutely correct.

The US, if it wishes, can re-industrialize. But, to do so, there will need to be sweeping changes in immigration policy (I.e. MORE legal immigration.... a lot more) and many other things: potentially things like environmental policy and laws will need to be modified to make manufacturing more viable, social policy changes (everything from a full redo on healthcare to worker’s compensation, workplace rules, etc), greatly enhanced technical/skill training for workers, etc. etc. etc.

the US is a great country and can do anything it sets its mind to do. However, I simply don’t have a sanguine view that politicians and the people who vote for them are willing to do the fundamental changes that will be needed to on-shore massive amounts of manufacturing. I fear some politician will “save” 100 jobs at Whirlpool and pretend that’s a win. Box checked. Move on. (Same politicians who offshored all of their own branded product manufacturing to Asia when they were private businessmen/citizens). What is really needed, as you point out, is a generational shift in the way we view the economy and our workforce and then the hard work of making that shift happen needs to be implemented.
 
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rickinAZ

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There is a really strong argument to make that you are absolutely correct.

The US, if it wishes, can re-industrialize. But, to do so, there will need to be sweeping changes in immigration policy (I.e. MORE legal immigration.... a lot more) and many other things: potentially things like environmental policy and laws will need to be modified to make manufacturing more viable, social policy changes (everything from a full redo on healthcare to worker’s compensation, workplace rules, etc), greatly enhanced technical/skill training for workers, etc. etc. etc.

the US is a great country and can do anything it sets its mind to do. However, I simply don’t have a sanguine view that politicians and the people who vote for them are willing to do the fundamental changes that will be needed to on-shore massive amounts of manufacturing. I fear some politician will “save” 100 jobs at Whirlpool and pretend that’s a win. Box checked. Move on. What is really needed, as you point out, is a generational shift in the way we view the economy and our workforce and then the hard work of making that shift happen needs to be implemented.
Agreed.

One other thought: The constant hunt for lower prices (just read our posts on this forum) is what contributes to off-shore sourcing. Usually manufacturing costs are kept down through sub-standard working conditions (hours, safety, etc..) and, sometimes, child labor. It's easy to say that we should make everything in the US, but are we prepared for all that that practice entails? Item #1 will be increased costs. I'm okay with that, but look at everyone wanting to leverage this crisis by pressuring hard-hit vendors to further reduce prices. We are putting American businesses under as we speak - and, now we want them to be our exclusive providers?
 

Dkretden

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Agreed.

One other thought: The constant hunt for lower prices (just read our posts on this forum) is what contributes to off-shore sourcing. Usually manufacturing costs are kept down through sub-standard working conditions (hours, safety, etc..) and, sometimes, child labor. It's easy to say that we should make everything in the US, but are we prepared for all that that practice entails? Item #1 will be increased costs. I'm okay with that, but look at everyone wanting to leverage this crisis by pressuring hard-hit vendors to further reduce prices. We are putting American businesses under as we speak - and, now we want them to be our exclusive providers?
I fully agree with this.

I am aware of a specific product (I won’t say what it is) that was manufactured in China and shipped to the United States, warehoused and then shipped to retailers.... cost to do all that? A little less than $10 per unit. The company marked it up $5 and solid it to retailers who then solid it for about $25-$30 to the public.

the company that offshored the production of this product looked in detail at trying to get it made in the USA. I understand that it could be done but the cost was going to be “in excess of $35’ vs “less than $10.” That would imply a retail price of about $65-70 vs $25-$30. market research said that nobody would buy it at that price.....

So, why are N95 masks (mostly) made overseas? Because they cost nothing to make there and since they weigh nothing, shipping costs nothing. If we want to make N95s here, instead of $.50 each, they will cost (pick a number) $1.50 each? ..... and we all will pay for that. Are Americans willing to do that? Many are not, IMO.
 

guarnibl

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There is a really strong argument to make that you are absolutely correct.

The US, if it wishes, can re-industrialize. But, to do so, there will need to be sweeping changes in immigration policy (I.e. MORE legal immigration.... a lot more) and many other things: potentially things like environmental policy and laws will need to be modified to make manufacturing more viable, social policy changes (everything from a full redo on healthcare to worker’s compensation, workplace rules, etc), greatly enhanced technical/skill training for workers, etc. etc. etc.

the US is a great country and can do anything it sets its mind to do. However, I simply don’t have a sanguine view that politicians and the people who vote for them are willing to do the fundamental changes that will be needed to on-shore massive amounts of manufacturing. I fear some politician will “save” 100 jobs at Whirlpool and pretend that’s a win. Box checked. Move on. (Same politicians who offshored all of their own branded product manufacturing to Asia when they were private businessmen/citizens). What is really needed, as you point out, is a generational shift in the way we view the economy and our workforce and then the hard work of making that shift happen needs to be implemented.
I agree on the politics. It's going to take decades for such a shift to happen... I'm also skeptical. I'm not sure we'll forget so easily this time though.
 

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This is a great vision. and one I agree with. But there is a significant snag with it: workers. The US does not have the workforce domestically to produce all that stuff (and more) regardless of cost.

before this pandemic, there were hundreds of thousands of jobs — good jobs — from truck drivers to welders to factory workers to skilled trades to... that were infilled. We (had) the jobs but we didn’t have the employees who could pass a drug test /criminal background and show up every day to work for a decent wage. If we try (and we should) to re-engage in manufacturing in this country, we have some very basic questions to ask and answer: where will we get the millions of new workers to fill those jobs?
I agree! I have been saying for years that there are way too many Office jobs. Way too many lawyers and jobs that don't really produce anything. I'm not original here, of course. Mike Rowe has been pushing the Trades hard over the past 10+ years. He advocated for vocational training, on the job training and jobs that did not require a degree. We need to produce products in this country. If we don't then we risk exactly what is happening now! Having a World Economy is good and I understand why it came about (Limit the possibility of a WW3) but we kept off loading our Manufacturing jobs over the years and our Gov't allowed it! No, they not only allowed it, they encouraged it! They got paid off to allow Companies to use labor from other Countries but still import with little to no ramifications.

Not everyone needs to work in an office! Not everyone needs to be a Lawyer or have a Whte Collar job. This Country was not Founded or Built by White Collar workers. Look around right now and see who the 'Essential' people are. If you want a job that will ALWAYS be in demand, a job that will ALWAYS pay, get one that is still needed right now! I respect people who produce something, people who get their hands dirty. I respect people do things many other people refuse to do. No one needs to kill themselves or work themselves to death, but there are industries that are just needed more than others. And to not get political here.....the current Administration has been working to get us off of the dependency of other Countries. Many have called foul on that. Well, look at our current situation....And do NOT think for a second this won't happen again! If you don't learn from History then you are doomed to repeat it!
 

Dkretden

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I agree! I have been saying for years that there are way too many Office jobs. Way too many lawyers and jobs that don't really produce anything. I'm not original here, of course. Mike Rowe has been pushing the Trades hard over the past 10+ years. He advocated for vocational training, on the job training and jobs that did not require a degree. We need to produce products in this country. If we don't then we risk exactly what is happening now! Having a World Economy is good and I understand why it came about (Limit the possibility of a WW3) but we kept off loading our Manufacturing jobs over the years and our Gov't allowed it! No, they not only allowed it, they encouraged it! They got paid off to allow Companies to use labor from other Countries but still import with little to no ramifications.

Not everyone needs to work in an office! Not everyone needs to be a Lawyer or have a Whte Collar job. This Country was not Founded or Built by White Collar workers. Look around right now and see who the 'Essential' people are. If you want a job that will ALWAYS be in demand, a job that will ALWAYS pay, get one that is still needed right now! I respect people who produce something, people who get their hands dirty. I respect people do things many other people refuse to do. No one needs to kill themselves or work themselves to death, but there are industries that are just needed more than others. And to not get political here.....the current Administration has been working to get us off of the dependency of other Countries. Many have called foul on that. Well, look at our current situation....And do NOT think for a second this won't happen again! If you don't learn from History then you are doomed to repeat it!
Good points......

one group of people who we routinely forget are the truck drivers who pickup our trash and recyclables everyday. They are properly deemed “essential”. I am told that in many Areas of the country that the men and women make $75-100k per year plus benefits, They are skilled drivers carrying all the correct licensing/drug testing, etc. I also understand that there are many driver jobs unfilled because the trash/recycling companies can’t find drivers. It’s sad that too many Americans have been brought up to not be able to figure out that if they get the training and are willing to work hard in a “dirty job”, they might be able to earn a solidly middle class income (or more) rather than complain that some mythical dragon is keeping them shackled to a burger flipper for $15k/year.
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