Ethanol-Free Gasoline

[Kerney]

Guess I'm a bit confused on some of the postings. Coming out of a tuned car you get more hp/ performance running E85 with a tune than 0% or 10% ethanol fuel. Ignoring fuel economy. I had different tunes that I could switch between depending on fuel chosen.

Running same octane I'd assume no difference in engine knock.

Yes 0% would get better fuel economy than 10% ethanol.

I have 3 fuel stations that sell E0 within a mile of my house but also 2 boat ramps. I run E0 in my boat and all small engines. Never run it in any cars as it's a low volume usage so your chance of getting bad fuel is much higher. Only bad fuel I've ever experienced was E0. I wouldn't run it in any car that was designed to accept ethanol.

Even from a stability standpoint...I baby sat my father in laws Tacoma for a year+ when he had dementia. I would drive it once every 3 months burning the ethanol gas out/ putting in new tank of 10%. Never had an issue.

I fill my vehicles up at a local costco 10% ethanol. I asked one time how much fuel they use and he said 10,000 gallons I think in a day. That fuel never sits in the underground tank. Now think how many people use E0 and how long it sits in the underground tank. Now assume you are getting fuel when that tank is low.

Sponsored

 

[Heimkehr]

Guess I'm a bit confused on some of the postings. Coming out of a tuned car you get more hp/ performance running E85 with a tune than 0% or 10% ethanol fuel. Ignoring fuel economy. I had different tunes that I could switch between depending on fuel chosen.

This isn't a performance vehicle forum. We aren't chasing tunes or numbers with the engines in our Jeeps. We just want them to run reliably and correctly.

I fill my vehicles up at a local costco 10% ethanol. I asked one time how much fuel they use and he said 10,000 gallons I think in a day. That fuel never sits in the underground tank.

Now think how many people use E0 and how long it sits in the underground tank. Now assume you are getting fuel when that tank is low.

There's only one station in reasonable driving distance that I've confirmed to sell ethanol-free fuel. It's in the adjacent county, and it does a bang-up business because everyone (like me) who wants real gas, for whatever reason, has to go there. More than twice have I driven or ridden there, 19.3 miles each way and at various times, to see a tanker truck refilling the relevant underground tank.

We get the spirit of what you're saying, but a station that sells ethanol-free fuel does not, ipso facto, mean the risk of stale fuel and/or the transmission of storage tank detritus into our own tanks is a constant one.

 

[jellis4148]

In Missouri you can buy Ethanol free premium fuel at most places. That's what I run. 91 octane with no ethanol. Not for performance, but for the same reason I change my oil every 3k miles. It's better for the fuel system, and engine to not run that crap.

 

[2nd 392]

This isn't a performance vehicle forum. We aren't chasing tunes or numbers with the engines in our Jeeps. We just want them to run reliably and correctly.

There's only one station in reasonable driving distance that I've confirmed to sell ethanol-free fuel. It's in the adjacent county, and it does a bang-up business because everyone (like me) who wants real gas, for whatever reason, has to go there. More than twice have I driven or ridden there, 19.3 miles each way and at various times, to see a tanker truck refilling the relevant underground tank.

We get the spirit of what you're saying, but a station that sells ethanol-free fuel does not, ipso facto, mean the risk of stale fuel and/or the transmission of storage tank detritus into our own tanks is a constant one.

It must be nice to have freedom of choice, even if out of the way. Dunno, but If Nevada sells it my closest is about a 2 1/2 hr drive. If not, and Oregon does, double it. If not, evidently Washington does, not exactly a reasonable drive from central Ca.

 

[jadmt]

pretty much all stations here have it. I have run many tanks of it on both my 3.6L and mazda 2.5 turbo and on the same long routes I see zero improvement in mpg on either vehicle. on the Mazda at WOT there is a difference but not in normal driving and zero difference seat of the pants on the 3.6. Some times just like burning through a couple of tank fulls just because I can I guess.

 

[Dusty Dude]

The amount of oil based products used in growing corn and making ethanol negates the amount of fuel saved at the pump.

There is no free lunch…

My Challenger would consistently get a 3MPG improvement on ethanol free gas. My wife’s car, not so much.

 

[Kerney]

This isn't a performance vehicle forum. We aren't chasing tunes or numbers with the engines in our Jeeps. We just want them to run reliably and correctly.

My point is if the octane ratings are the same there is no performance increase between 0 and 10% ethanol fuel. Yes you will get better fuel economy with ethanol free, but you will need to do the math to see if it offsets the cost difference driving zero miles. Locally E0 is higher octane so it is much more expensive than 87 octane E10.

Modern engines were designed / developed with E10 and run perfectly fine on E10. The miles on 3 of my current vehicles total 460k miles and they have only been given E10. I've never had any engine/fuel system issues in my life so I'd debate whether E0 improves reliabiltiy in modern engines.

But...my boat was not designed to run on E10 so i use ethanol free in it and all my small engines. I hate ethanol fuel, but i'm not going to pay a premium for E0 fuel since the cost premium locally isn't offset by the mileage increase.

More power to you if you only run ethanol free, but it isn't needed.

 

[Heimkehr]

More power to you if you only run ethanol free, but it isn't needed.

I don't use E0 exclusively, and do agree that its sheer expense over time has to be part of one's analysis. My Jeep is in fact fed a fairly steady diet of E10, to no apparent ill effect.

I'll fill up my six 20L NATO jerry cans with ethanol-free fuel at the station that sells it, and then draw down from them to feed the various OPE (riding mower, snow blower, etc.) Real gas is also used when I prepare a batch of 50:1 for the Stihls, where ethanol content is specifically warned against. It's the long-term protection that E0 provides in those particular use cases that compels me to recurringly invest in it.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

What most ethanol haters tend to forget is that the only refining capacity that has been built in the last 25 years has been for ethanol. Yet the number of the cars on the road has gone up rapidly. We would have European prices if not for ethanol being added to our fuel.

My YJ detested E10 because it was built prior to the ethanol years. My minivan, F150, and Jeep don’t get enough bump in MPG to justify the additional cost of using E0 gas.

When my dad had his Cuda, he built it to run on E85 for the additional bump in HP and the cooler intake temps from using it. He never had an issue using the 1974 fuel tank and fuel lines.

Thank ethanol for our inexpensive gas.

It's not about the gas mileage, they say that ethanol is corrosive

 

[DaltonGang]

It's not about the gas mileage, they say that ethanol is corrosive

Ethanol-Free gas is non-existent around Houston. You have to travel far to find it. So, when I do some traveling, i carry a couple of 5 gallon gas cans to fill up, on the way home.
I use it in my yard equipment, and chainsaws. I have torn down enough small engine carbs, and have seen the corrosion the Ethanol will do inside them, also the deterioration of the fuel lines. The corrosion could be caused by the moisture attracted by the ethanol. In either case, I have had zero issues with failing lawn equipment, over the past 18 or so years, since I have switched to Ethanol-Free gas.
Modern vehicles, it seems, have fuel lines and internal components that are more resistant to ethanol. Ethanol will still attract moisture in your tank, if you constantly keep a low tank.

 

[svtrit]

The amount of oil based products used in growing corn and making ethanol negates the amount of fuel saved at the pump.

There is no free lunch…

My Challenger would consistently get a 3MPG improvement on ethanol free gas. My wife’s car, not so much.

That is old data....not true anymore. I would agree though, that sugar cane is a better yielding feedstock for ethanol than corn is. Corn is just easier to grow, efficient, and plentiful. Plus the by product can be feed to cattle and is much more efficient than straight corn.

Full disclosure, I work in the corn seed industry.

 

[Dusty Dude]

That is old data....not true anymore. I would agree though, that sugar cane is a better yielding feedstock for ethanol than corn is. Corn is just easier to grow, efficient, and plentiful. Plus the by product can be feed to cattle and is much more efficient than straight corn.

Full disclosure, I work in the corn seed industry.

The numbers have changed over the years, but farmers are still using tractors, combines, etc. to grow and harvest the corn and that uses gas, diesel, and oil. The grain still goes through a dryer before getting stored in bins. Dryers use various fossil fuels. The fertilizer used is made using petroleum products. Transporting the corn to the ethanol plant takes fuel, and then the plant has to process the corn, which also takes a huge amount of energy.

I agree the energy use is less than years ago, but it is still there.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

On a trip, the other day, I saw Ethanol-Free Gasoline being sold at a Buc-ee's rest stop/gas station. I have not seen it sold anywhere in Texas, for many many years. I curse the use of ethanol in small lawn equipment, and have had to repair a lot of things because of it. So, I bought a 5 gallon gas can and filled it up, to take home.
I was wondering if any of you use the ethanol-free gas in your Wrangler, and can tell a difference? The stuff I saw was 90 octane.
I'm thinking of filling up with it, on the way back past that area.

I live about 5 to 10 mi from the Buc-ee's in Melissa Texas, and that's the fuel I use exclusively for my wife Subaru and for our lawn mower.

I know they say that he's modern engines are designed to be able to handle ethanol, but that's no different than saying I've built up a tolerance to whiskey. It's not good for you regardless, just like it's not good for your engine, whether your engine can handle it or not. About a year ago I took my wife Subaru into the dealership to get a warranty parts swapped out, and the mechanic approached me and asked me how I keep the engine so clean. I was kind of confused by the question because the engine was only about 3 years old at that point with 50,000 miles on it, but I told the guy regular oil changes and ethanol free fuel, cuz that's the only thing I could think of that actually affect the engines cleanliness.

There seems to be a lot of confusing information out there about ethanol in vehicles, mostly with people stating that It's better for modern engines because of how they're designed, but if you look a little more in depth into that, it's actually not good for your engine. However the people selling you snake oil will tell you anything you want to hear.

Once we move out to the country, and we're not near the Buc-ee's anymore, I guess I'll just keep using regular 87 octane in the Subaru.

I don't think it's one of those things that affects engines in the short term, like if you're using 5 gallons of ethanol-free and then that's it for like the next four or five years, it's kind of no point in doing that. It's more of a long-term thing. In the long term if you use ethanol free your engine should be more efficient and cleaner in the long run, but if you're only using ethanol-free once in a while, I don't think you're going to see the rewards from it.

 

[DaltonGang]

I live about 5 to 10 mi from the Buc-ee's in Melissa Texas, and that's the fuel I use exclusively for my wife Subaru and for our lawn mower.

I know they say that he's modern engines are designed to be able to handle ethanol, but that's no different than saying I've built up a tolerance to whiskey. It's not good for you regardless, just like it's not good for your engine, whether your engine can handle it or not. About a year ago I took my wife Subaru into the dealership to get a warranty parts swapped out, and the mechanic approached me and asked me how I keep the engine so clean. I was kind of confused by the question because the engine was only about 3 years old at that point with 50,000 miles on it, but I told the guy regular oil changes and ethanol free fuel, cuz that's the only thing I could think of that actually affect the engines cleanliness.

There seems to be a lot of confusing information out there about ethanol in vehicles, mostly with people stating that It's better for modern engines because of how they're designed, but if you look a little more in depth into that, it's actually not good for your engine. However the people selling you snake oil will tell you anything you want to hear.

Once we move out to the country, and we're not near the Buc-ee's anymore, I guess I'll just keep using regular 87 octane in the Subaru.

I don't think it's one of those things that affects engines in the short term, like if you're using 5 gallons of ethanol-free and then that's it for like the next four or five years, it's kind of no point in doing that. It's more of a long-term thing. In the long term if you use ethanol free your engine should be more efficient and cleaner in the long run, but if you're only using ethanol-free once in a while, I don't think you're going to see the rewards from it.

If I lived near a Buc-ee's that sold Ethanol-free gas I would use it regularly too. But, The only time I stock up on it, and use it is when I fill up my gas cans, for lawn equipment. They seem more sensitive than the vehicles.

 

[jadmt]

If I lived near a Buc-ee's that sold Ethanol-free gas I would use it regularly too. But, The only time I stock up on it, and use it is when I fill up my gas cans, for lawn equipment. They seem more sensitive than the vehicles.

I have an 18 year old John deere rider mower and a Honda push mower about the same and never have put anything but 87 regular in them and every spring they start without any issues. My push mower starts one pull ever time and I have never even emptied the tanks before putting them away for the winter...they are stored outside in a shed. My 2 stroke weed wacker was the same until I gave it away when I bought a Dewalt battery powered weed wacker.

Sponsored