ESS ???

[Sean L]

I was wondering what the time was to break even. Good to know
For some reason I recall they used to say about a minute to break even on old carbureted engines back in the 70s/80s.

Yep, takes a lot to get a cold engine going with carburetors. My older motorcycle is carbureted and even when you think its ready to go they still sputter... lol

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[Sean L]

I’m in Houston also, and I’d like to get the guy in a closed room that thought mandatory shutting off of the engine/ac in the summer in Houston was a good idea.

Do you use auto temp or manual AC control? I always find the Auto control turns the fans down so it doesn't blow hot outside air into the Jeep during an autostop.

 

[srt20]

Does the 3.6 not have a belt start generator? I thought it did on the Rams.

 

[Sean L]

Does the 3.6 not have a belt start generator? I thought it did on the Rams.

With the Ram 1500 yes, but not in any of the Jeeps.

 

[Rahneld]

At first i wasn't crazy about the ess options. with an open mind i gave it a shot and got use to it. however, i have some ??? that i would like to know and have a further understanding on the ess.

1. how much is too much in using the ess on a regular basis which include everyday driving and commuting to work? i drive 15-16 miles round trip to and from work 5-6 days a week. in the morning the ess kicks in 8 to 10 times. in the evening the ess kicks in 15 - 20 times. this would be 7.5 miles one way with traffic, lights, stop signs.

2. i usually scan ahead of me and "adjust" my speed, distance, etc so i can usually drive thru without stopping. when necessary...

Chris: I want to add a tad bit more color commentary on the 3.6L JLs ESS system. Much of this you can do little about, but it's useful to know, and has excellent coverage on the bboard.

• By way of a metaphor, if the ESS system was a "bicycle chain," its weakest link, I think,would be the ESS battery. Time will only tell if it needs no more frequent change than the batteries of other single battery (non ESS) vehicles. It's hard to get to for replacement and expensive for its size.
• My wording above: "the batteries of other single battery vehicles……" Notice I didn't say "the main battery of the JL." And I didn't say that because the rig's main battery may prove to fail more often than those in other vehicles with one battery because if either of the 2 JL batteries fails and needs charge, it can potentially suck that power from the good battery. This is especially problematic when the JL's at rest with no alternator working. The batteries are always connected but for cranks and ESS events.
• On the bright side, ESS systems, as you may know, have been around for some time. Some operate on one battery and I suspect the JL engineers had the best of intentions when then choose a 2 battery design given the electrical load a modded JL might consume at a stop light versus other brands of vehicle far less likely to experience such upgrades.
• In my opinion the design has a pretty easily correctable flaw that could be likely addressed with a software patch. I've shared this with Jeep Brand's President as sure as they likely knew it: Jeep decided to cold crank their 3.6L JLs that same way they crank them after an ESS event (probably to keep design cost lower.) This means that the ESS battery must have adequate charge or the JL won't crank--even if you have ESS turned off. Spelled out, at any crank, cold or ESS, the batteries in a 3.6L JL are isolated, and the ESS battery solely notifies the starter to crank the engine. While the batteries are then reconnected in parallel before the starter fires, such that both batteries can assist the starter, a dead ESS battery equates to no notification and no crank. This is why you can start and run your 3.6L on the ESS battery alone, but not the main battery alone.
  
  This logic works fine during an ESS event because the event won't happen if the ESS battery is low, and the ESS event will end prematurely if the ESS battery becomes low--so the ESS battery will always have the "juice" to notify the starter.
  
  The fix, I believe would have the two batteries connected at cold crank, and disconnect them when the 3.6JL is at rest (where the batteries are connected in parallel) if it detects one battery being a parasitic drain on the other. I think FCA decided to use the logic sequence for an ESS engine crank on a cold crank to save design $, when different logic is best applied to each type of crank.
  
  Fortunately, poster @Jebiruph devised an excellent and easy wire based fix to this, if it becomes a problem, that keeps the batteries connected at all times. I'm of the opinion though that ESS system shouldn't be allowed to engage using this fix ("press the button or by tech to turn the ESS system off at startup), because using it, means both batteries drain during an ESS event. This potential to run down the main battery in an ESS event: the same battery that is designed to bear most of the cranking load, might prove a problem.
• So any notion the 3.6L JL owners have that because they never use ESS, they can simply yank their ESS battery without someone hooking its leads permanently back to the main battery, is in for a JL that won't start.

 

[mgroeger]

At first i wasn't crazy about the ess options. with an open mind i gave it a shot and got use to it. however, i have some ??? that i would like to know and have a further understanding on the ess.

1. how much is too much in using the ess on a regular basis which include everyday driving and commuting to work? i drive 15-16 miles round trip to and from work 5-6 days a week. in the morning the ess kicks in 8 to 10 times. in the evening the ess kicks in 15 - 20 times. this would be 7.5 miles one way with traffic, lights, stop signs.

2. i usually scan ahead of me and "adjust" my speed, distance, etc so i can usually drive thru without stopping. when necessary i will apply the brake to scroll to a stop but not a completely. "feathering" the brake to avoid the ess to kick in. my question is, does the ess sense this at all so it wants to kick in or i'm not in range for the ess to kick in?

3. i've notice once i apply the brakes. the ess kicks in. if i move my foot slightly on the brake, the engine kicks back on and the ess is off. but i am still stop. will this cause any ess issues? i'm guessing it that sensitive.

4. with #3, when this accrues i can release the brake and re apply it again which causes the ess to kick back on. is this ok or will the ess cause any issues down the road.

5. could i just simply hit the bypass switch from time to time during the drive depending on the condition.?

6. if i have the a/c on or heat, is the ess taking that load in starting back up/

i am aware that i can turn on the bypass switch for the ess. i'm guessing that the ess is setup for this kind on punishment.

i'm am doing a little test to see how much fuel i'm saving but using the ess on a full tank of gas. and will run the 2nd tank of gas without the ess.basically to see how much saving on fuel.

sorry for the long post, just trying to include as much details. any feedback would be great.

Personally I think this feature SUCKS B@LLS and it is the first thing my wife and I do when we start the Jeep... shut it off. My very first thoughts when I saw this default on "feature" was, they will be replacing a lot of starters in five years. Talked to the service manager and he said the exact same thing.
The gas you save is a joke UNLESS you are in city traffic where you are constantly at a stand still, then I'll give you that you may see a savings.
Oh, and spare me the environment crap, the Jeep not running for 30 seconds at a stop light isn't saving anything over the course of it's life.
I've had the experience and so have others where this freaking thing would engage milliseconds before I was getting off the brake and hitting the gas to pull out into an intersection. What an unnerving feeling, scared the crap out of me to feel like I had no control in that moment when I needed it most.
Personally if I was training my kid I'd shut this thing off as it is a distraction.

OK, I'm done being cynical now, I'm sure you got the idea that I can't STAND the Nanny state on my vehicles.

 

[Dave91gt]

We turned it off with a Tazer within a month of buying the Jeep.
I understand the rationale that automakers are trying to eek out every mpg. But the Jeep is much more enjoyable with it off.

 

[Sean L]

The gas you save is a joke UNLESS you are in city traffic where you are constantly at a stand still, then I'll give you that you may see a savings.

Considering Raleigh traffic.... You'll be sitting still a lot.

 

[wv18jl]

Signed the paperwork at dealership.
Popped hood, unplugged switch.

Turn engine on and off multiple times a day?

Good for Jeep and their engineered obsolescence plan.

Fleece the suckers who are foolish enough to believe this is a good idea.

 

[mgroeger]

Signed the paperwork at dealership.
Popped hood, unplugged switch.

Turn engine on and off multiple times a day?

Good for Jeep and their engineered obsolescence plan.

Fleece the suckers who are foolish enough to believe this is a good idea.

Good old disconnect hood switch. The only thing that sucks is the dash light comes on.

 

[GreyFox]

I’m in Houston also, and I’d like to get the guy in a closed room that thought mandatory shutting off of the engine/ac in the summer in Houston was a good idea.

The same guy who thought that cutting the heat at -25 was also a good idea. First World problems I guess

 

[mgroeger]

The same guy who thought that cutting the heat at -25 was also a good idea. First World problems I guess

Cutting the heat??

 

[GreyFox]

Cutting the heat??

Heater kicks off when ESS kicks in. Blows nice cold air in the winter

 

[TJ2018]

With the Ram 1500 yes, but not in any of the Jeeps.

The 2.0 has BSG as part of the mild hybrid system.

 

[Sean L]

The 2.0 has BSG as part of the mild hybrid system.

Yes, but I was referring to the 3.6.

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