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driving on the sand issue, traction control ?

Jlmoe

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i tried going up a dune in 4h but when i started losing momentum the car started "modulating" the power, it started to shudder, stutter, shake and came to a stop, this is the first time i take my jl on sand, i shifted it into 4low and it started in 2nd, i applied some throttle but the power was being cut, i floored the gas pedal and the same it dug bit by bit and then suddenly the rpm spiked and i dug my tire half way.

so i tried to take this vid on a small incline with soft sand to explain what i was facing, this is in 4low 2nd gear, front and rear difs locked and half throttle, i didnt move my foot at all but if u can hear the car was modulating the rpms as if traction control or something was still on.

I live and Kuwait and am always around sand dunes.. My guess its a safety feature once lockers are engaged for protection (high rpms)

No need to engage lockers on a flat sand surface, that way with them not engaged rpms will shoot till redline. I tend to used lockers once fully stuck to crawl my way out and not power it out if it makes sense..

Just my thoughts
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Jlmoe

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Also air down to 15-20 psi

BFG KM2's will always dig on sand with high air pressure

Again, lockers for "crawling out"
 

Jlmoe

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One more thing for going up sand dunes

Start in 4LO

No lockers engaged

Manual mode, go through gears to 4th or 5th keep there with your foot down and downshift only if your rpms go down once you lost momentum

Been doing this since my JK in 12' and was through very steep sand dunes



Old vid vs a Raptor
 
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Jlmoe

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When front axle is locked it puts extra strain on u joints at the wheels as opposed to axle spinning freely no matter what surface. The more you turn the wheels while locked will shorten life span of the wheel u joints. I made this mistake and my u joints started eventually clicking and popping even without being locked, just in 4 hi. So I replaced my front axle shafts with rcvs. I still try and avoid turning while locked but if I need to, the rcvs handle it better.
Rubicons in Europe and MEA have CV joints since they have a different transfer case (4WD Auto)

May wear faster also as mentioned by you
 
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garkoi

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Did you read this posted 3 days ago? https://blog.fcanorthamerica.com/2008/02/11/jeep-brake-traction-control-explained/

Either use 4Hi with Traction control off (push the button), Or use 4Lo and its off anyway.

If your not going over 20mph or so, use low range, faster than that I would use 4H.
i was being sarcastic towards that guy, i did read it, i tried it all and got a feel for what works.

(out of the subject)
Your car looks pretty، I would like to alert you regarding the rear bumper and maintain it
I wish you good luck
yea, we get a different rear bumper in the middle east.
 

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garkoi

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One more thing for going up sand dunes

Start in 4LO

No lockers engaged

Manual mode, go through gears to 4th or 5th keep there with your foot down and downshift only if your rpms go down once you lost momentum

Been doing this since my JK in 12' and was through very steep sand dunes



Old vid vs a Raptor
im in kuwait too, i know how to go up dunes, not that our dunes are that hard, i just wanted to see if its a safety thing that i can turn off, did u service your car at the dealer yet ?
 

Jlmoe

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im in kuwait too, i know how to go up dunes, not that our dunes are that hard, i just wanted to see if its a safety thing that i can turn off, did u service your car at the dealer yet ?
No will do service this Saturday 10K

Many owners tend to use 4HI which wont get you very far up dunes thus me mentioning a tip that might help out ;)

Someone might eventually find a way around this feature.. I would personally keep as is and use lockers for low speeds and rpms
 
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garkoi

garkoi

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No will do service this Saturday 10K

Many owners tend to use 4HI which wont get you very far up dunes thus me mentioning a tip that might help out ;)

Someone might eventually find a way around this feature.. I would personally keep as is and use lockers for low speeds and rpms
I did mine today and had to talk to head technician because the mechanic was going to put in 6 liters of oil instead of 4.7 and argued with me for 15 mins about it, they had to call the warranty department and after 30mins of checking their system they said "would you look at that it is 4.7" so far they filled other jls with 6 liters, i would recommend staying by your car while they fill it with oil.
 

Jlmoe

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I did mine today and had to talk to head technician because the mechanic was going to put in 6 liters of oil instead of 4.7 and argued with me for 15 mins about it, they had to call the warranty department and after 30mins of checking their system they said "would you look at that it is 4.7" so far they filled other jls with 6 liters, i would recommend staying by your car while they fill it with oil.
Yeah read about it here and had that in mind

Thanks for the heads up
 

Uhdinator

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Is that really true on soft sand? I'm a total noob... just speculating, but I'd have thought front lockers wouldn't be a problem even when turning on sand. the wheels will spin at the same rate, even in a turn, and of course that's a no-no when on hard surfaces, but on sand, is it a problem to turn the wheel with fronts locked?
Try it...........you will feel it want to fight you and stay straight. One wheel can't turn faster than the other as needed when turning so you are putting extra force on the front u joints, and ball joints. I only used the rear locker when going into mud where I want full traction and still need to steer/maneuver.

My TJ Rubicon had a Limited slip/full locker rearend. If I was climbing over obstacles and could not move, lock the rear. if still could not move, turn front wheels straight, Lock the front, get over obstacle, unlock front when needing to turn, then unlock rear.

Anytime you are locked its adding stress to things. The amount of stress is of course decreases with the surface you are on. I have a 2003 Rubicon......actual times I used/engaged both lockers in 16 yrs..........twice maybe 4 times just the rear.

With brake lock diff always working in all modes. It will adjust as needed and not be on when not needed.
When the first Rubicon was avail in 2003........many ruby owners where popping ball joints out of the axle and or breaking U joints doing stuff like hill climbing where both front wheels are spinning and one front tire grabs hold of a stump or rock and gets traction and the other still spinning.........Kaboom. First thing everybody did was modify there Rubicon so the axles would engage in 4H range.......all that did was increase the rate of broken u joints and ball joints.
I used mine with carefully keeping wheel spin to a minimum with a very light foot. You can break teeth off on ring and pinion gears too. Usually the front axle you will break a u joint or pop a ball joint out before damaging gears if spinning hard and you suddenly get traction.
 
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Uhdinator

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Oh and be careful with the brake lock differential. It won't be a surprise in sand, but I'll tell you this.......
I was driving down a camp road and had a buddy with me. Snow berms on both sides of the road that was solid ice from previous rains that froze. It was like an ice rink. I came to the end of the road blocked by a snow bank and was going to continue on over it (because I can) to the un-plowed road beyond. Due to the angle of the snow bank, one tire was against the hard as rock snow bank the other 3 were on smooth ice. I Gave it a second with 3 of 4 tires spinning and gradually increase throttle......next thing I know I launched and over we went. My buddy was quite surprised, I was as well but curbed my enthusiasm and grinned and said thats what its supposed to do. Like I knew it was gonna do that! He could not believe I had one tire grab ahold and launch like it did. It was a good thing I was patient and waited for it to do its thing. If I had really slammed on the skinny pedal I could have been in the trees! Be patient as it will take a little bit for the brake to gradually decrease the spinning and the other tire to start moving........if the tire that has good traction abruptly engages and you got it wound up.......you will launch and it won't be pretty if you're in the rocks.

The hill decent feature with the auto trans works well also. Push the button, it will tell you to put the stick in manual mode and shift up or down to control speed. No braking required. To turn it off stop completely......push bottun again. It won't shut off while moving. Works pretty damn good. If I remember it would not speed up by pressing the gas........only shifting would allow you to increase decent speed as its constantly controlling the brakes.
 
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Grateful1

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I was doing it on Jk
I do not have JL
But I will give you a picture of the fuse box that belongs to JL

----------------------
Location Description Size Type
F01 Spare
F02 Starter 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F03 IBS 5 Amp Tan Micro
F04 Fuel Pump MTR/FPCM 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F05 Security Gateway 5 Amp Tan Micro
F06 Spare
F07 LTR Cool Pump — If Equipped 15 Amp Blue Micro
F08 TCM-8HP CYGNUS 15 Amp Blue Micro
F09 Spare
F10 KIN/RF HUB/ESCL 15 Amp Blue Micro
F11 UCI Port (USB & AUX) 10 Amp Red Micro
F12 HIFI Ampliftier 25 Amp Clear Micro
F13 Spare
F14 Spare
F15 IPC/SWITCH BANK-HD ELEC 15 Amp Blue Micro
F16 Spare
F17 Spare
F18 AC CLUTCH 10 Amp Red Micro
F19 Spare
F20 CBC 1-INTERIOR LIGHTS 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F21 REAR WIPER 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F22 ECM/PCM/MGU WAKE UP/PPU WAKE UP 10 Amp Red Micro
F23 PCM/ECM 10 Amp Red Micro
F24 Spare
F25 MOD_SBW 10 Amp Red Micro
F26 CBC 2-EXTERIOR LIGHTS #1 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F27 Front Wipers 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F28 CBC 3-POWER LOCKS 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F29 CBC 4-EXTERIOR LIGHTS #2 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F30 Spare
F31 DIAGNOSTIC PORT 10 Amp Red Micro
F32 HVAC CTRL MOD/SCL/OCM/DPDM 10 Amp Red Micro
F33 PTS/IRCM/AIRBAG DISABLE LMPS 10 Amp Red Micro
F34 ESC/EHPS/SBCM WAKE UP 10 Amp Red Micro
F35 BRAKE VAC PMP — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F36 TRLR TOW MOD — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F37 TRLR TOW CONN 7W — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F38 ECM 20 Amp Blue Cartridge
F39 Spare
F40 DTCM/AXLE LOCK FT_RR 15 Amp Blue Micro
F41 IC/SGW WAKE UP 15 Amp Blue Micro
F42 PCR CTRL FEED (ESS)/SPARE (BSG) — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F43 PWR OUTLET (CARGO) BATT 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F44 IRCAM HEATERS 10 Amp Red Micro
F45 PWR OUTLET (CARGO) IGN* 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F46 AUTO HDLP LVL MOD/LVL MTR/HDLP SW 10 Amp Red Micro
F47 Spare
F48 Spare
F49 ORC 10 Amp Red Micro
F50 HD ACC — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F51 DSRC/USB/ISRVM/CSGM 10 Amp Red Micro
F52 CIGAR LTR 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F53 Spare
F54 Spare
F55 Spare
F56 IN-CAR TEMP SENSOR 10 Amp Red Micro
F57 Frt Drvr Htd Seat 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F58 Frt Pass Htd Seat 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F59 Spare
F60 CSWM (HTD STR WHEEL) 15 Amp Blue Micro
F61 LBSS/RBSS 10 Amp Red Micro
F62 Spare
F63 ORC 10 Amp Red Micro
F64 Spare
F65 Spare
F66 HVAC BLOWER MTR FRT 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F67 Spare
F68 Spare
F69 MGU (BSG) — If Equipped 5 Amp Tan Micro
F70 INJ/IGN COIL (GAS)/GLO PLUG MOD (DSL) 25 Amp Clear Micro
F71 Spare
F72 HD ELEC ACC PKG — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F73 PWR TOP LT 20 Amp Blue Cartridge
F74 PWR TOP RT 20 Amp Blue Cartridge
F75 PPU-BPCM & APM (BSG) — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F76 ECM (GAS)/PCM (DSL) 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F77 HTD MIRRORS 10 Amp Red Micro
F78 COMP/INTRUSION/SIREN/INTRUSION SNSRS 10 Amp Red Micro
F79 SMART BAR CTRL MOD 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F80 PCM 15 Amp Blue Micro
F81 REAR DEFROSTER (EBL) 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F82 FUEL HTR — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F83 GLOW PLUG — If Equipped 60 Amp Yellow Cartridge
F84 UREA HTR CTRL UNIT — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F85 PM SENSOR — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F86 BRAKE VAC PMP 2 — If Equipped 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F87 SUPPLY/PURGING PMP — If Equipped 10 Amp Red Micro
F88 NOx SENSOR #1/ #2 — IF Equipped 20 Amp Blue Cartridge
F89 SCCM/CRUISE CTL/DTV 10 Amp Red Micro
F90 TRLR TOW PARK LMP — If Equipped 20 Amp Blue Cartridge
F91 HORN 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F92 HD ACCY #2 — If Equipped 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F93 HD ACCY #1 — If Equipped 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F94 TPM/CORAX 10 Amp Red Micro
F95 Spare
F96 PWR MIRROR SW 10 Amp Red Micro
F97 RADIO/TBM 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F98 SW BANK-HD ELEC/OFF ROAD 10 Amp Red Micro
F99 Spare
F100 ESC-ECU & VALVES 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F101 DTCM 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F102 DUAL USB PORT 15 Amp Blue Micro
F103 HD ACCY #3 — If Equipped 15 Amp Blue Micro
F104 PPU COOL PUMP — If Equipped 15 Amp Blue Micro
F105 ICS/HVAC 10 Amp Red Micro
F106 ESC-PUMP MTR 40 Amp Green Cartridge
F107 TRLR TOW STOP/TURN LT — If Equipped 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F108 HD ACCY #4 — If Equipped 15 Amp Blue Micro
F109 TRLR TOW STOP/TURN RT — If Equipped 20 Amp Yellow Micro
F110 POWER INVERTER 30 Amp Pink Cartridge
F111 TRLR TOW BACKUP — If Equipped

FUSE BOX DIAGRAM.jpeg
Wow. That is outstanding .
 

Sand Flea

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you should really air down to less than 15 psi for desert sand.
beach sand is wet, its packed, the desert and the dunes its dry and sugary.
You did notice my photo, didn't you? :LOL:

IMG_6014.jpg
 

PavementWarrior

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If have an auto, switching into manual might eliminate it from doing things you dont want (like when it cuts power on hills)

I guess I dont fully understand when the auto cuts power, I would have got a mnual trans but Wrangler is too small and I would only be able to shift with doors off :O
 

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If have an auto, switching into manual might eliminate it from doing things you dont want (like when it cuts power on hills)

I guess I dont fully understand when the auto cuts power, I would have got a mnual trans but Wrangler is too small and I would only be able to shift with doors off :O
Think of "traction control" as separate from the brake lock differential. The dash button is for traction control on/off in 2WD/4WD high. Best used on packed snow/ice highway driving speeds where if you started spinning the engine would cut power to reduce a spin out that could put you in a ditch. If pushing through deep snow or driving in sand or mud (at slower than highway speeds) you don't want it on as you don't want the engine to pull back power, you need to keep your tires churning and maintain momentum.

Brake lock diff is always on in 2wd/4wd and does not cut engine power. 4wd Lo disables traction control. Basically i would push the button and turn off TC for off road use.
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