Diesel coming back!?

[swampflyer]

68000 miles on my tdi Jetta. Just change oil and drive. I get 2/3 calls a month from individuals out of state and the dealer wanting to purchase my diesel even the dealer mechanic wants it. No, no, no. Love this diesel 52 mpg around town and on the roadway.

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[ALeeL]

this engine will never return. it was a warranty cost nightmare, let alone the epa nonsense

small diesels that require $20k worth of emissions bullshit to even be road legal aren't worth producing

Just wait until you see what is currently being propose for small direct injected gasoline engines. If the EPA gets their way, every one will have a particulate filter.

 

[ALeeL]

68000 miles on my tdi Jetta. Just change oil and drive. I get 2/3 calls a month from individuals out of state and the dealer wanting to purchase my diesel even the dealer mechanic wants it. No, no, no. Love this diesel 52 mpg around town and on the roadway.

Same here. I have several family members and friends who consistently tell me that they better be the first one I call if I ever decide to sell my 328d. Never had anyone ever say the same for my gas powered cars in the past.

 

[gato]

Why is it always the people that don't have something, the loudest critics?

Because once you buy something you have a tendency to defend your choices, no matter how bad it is.

The ecodiesel was cancelled after ~3 years on the market at a huge loss to Stellantis.

Why?

 

[ALeeL]

Because once you buy something you have a tendency to defend your choices, no matter how bad it is.

The ecodiesel was cancelled after ~3 years on the market at a huge loss to Stellantis.

Why?

Not true. I had a 2.0L gas BMW before I bought my 328d and I hated that thing. I also would never buy a 5.0L Coyote in an F150 again. Also, sometimes, when one wishes they had something but can't, they go out of their way to put it down to make themselves feel better.

This is the second time you asked this and I answered. Both Jeep and Stellantis stated in their media excerpts that they are shifting focus to electrification— especially since it was highly subsidized by many governments that were subsidizing electrification adoption at the time the decision was made.

This is the same reason why they canceled the Hemi 5.7L and the 392— which they were paying massive fines and/or purchasing carbon for due to their fuel consumption pushing them over CAFE regulations. Between 2019 and 2021, Stellantis spend $2.4 billion in carbon credits— mostly from Tesla. While it may have cost Stellantis $300 million in the emissions scandal, the increase in their CAFE due to the Ecodiesel's higher fuel mileage was saving them from purchasing even more credits than the billions they were already purchasing

So, even though the 4xe with the 2.0L hybrid did not get anywhere near the EPA fuel mileage in the real world, especially with 35 in tires that most Jeep owners install. It came with the $3,750 or$7,500 government subsidy. Ironically, the 4xe was dropped as soon as the subsidies ended. The Ecodiesel, that actually got the EPA fuel mileage in the real world and does not take as much of an mpg hit with 35's, cost consumers around $6k more. I would bet that if the government gave diesels a $7,500 subsidy, their take rate would be a lot higher.

 

[zouch]

actually, i don't believe the EcoD cost anywhere near $6K more than a similarly equipped JL with a similar auto transmission.
i know mine didn't,..

and few people figure in that the EcoD got Dana 44s automatically, even if it wasn't a Rubicon.

Not true. I had a 2.0L gas BMW before I bought my 328d and I hated that thing. I also would never buy a 5.0L Coyote in an F150 again. Also, sometimes, when one wishes they had something but can't, they go out of their way to put it down to make themselves feel better.

This is the second time you asked this and I answered. Both Jeep and Stellantis stated in their media excerpts that they are shifting focus to electrification— especially since it was highly subsidized by many governments that were subsidizing electrification adoption at the time the decision was made.

This is the same reason why they canceled the Hemi 5.7L and the 392— which they were paying massive fines and/or purchasing carbon for due to their fuel consumption pushing them over CAFE regulations. Between 2019 and 2021, Stellantis spend $2.4 billion in carbon credits— mostly from Tesla. While it may have cost Stellantis $300 million in the emissions scandal, the increase in their CAFE due to the Ecodiesel's higher fuel mileage was saving them from purchasing even more credits than the billions they were already purchasing

So, even though the 4xe with the 2.0L hybrid did not get anywhere near the EPA fuel mileage in the real world, especially with 35 in tires that most Jeep owners install. It came with the $3,750 or$7,500 government subsidy. Ironically, the 4xe was dropped as soon as the subsidies ended. The Ecodiesel, that actually got the EPA fuel mileage in the real world and does not take as much of an mpg hit with 35's, cost consumers around $6k more. I would bet that if the government gave diesels a $7,500 subsidy, their take rate would be a lot higher.

 

[ALeeL]

actually, i don't believe the EcoD cost anywhere near $6K more than a similarly equipped JL with a similar auto transmission.
i know mine didn't,..

and few people figure in that the EcoD got Dana 44s automatically, even if it wasn't a Rubicon.

The diesel option for me was $4k and another $2k for the beefier transmission that you have to have with the diesel option. It was an added $6k as soon as I selected the diesel option versus the 3.6L with a manual. Yes, one could argue technicalities, but I am just basing that figure on the cost on my window sticker of the two options that I have to get in order to have a diesel versus the manual(that did not cost extra) I would have gotten if the diesel option was not available.

 

[rickinAZ]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Light vehicle diesels were only a thing when the Euro standards let diesels pollute (real pollution NOX, PM) much more than gasoline engines, supposedly because of lower (not real pollution) CO2.

The second dieselgate happened, and the standards were tightened, it became obvious that diesels are the horrible, expensive, boat anchors that they are on light vehicles. The market share of diesels vs gasoline in Europe plummeted from as high as 85-90% is some countries to single digits.

Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads over long highway distances, diesels make no sense. The engines and aftertreatment are incredibly expensive, they trap heat, the whole DPF clogs up without the long heavy pull loads, and the running costs are horrible when you look at the ever increasing cost of diesel vs gasoline delta, the DPF fluid, the monstrous oil change bills, etc.

The Ecodiesel was good for one thing, and one thing only for Stellantis/Jeep - and that was to clog every dealership, along with the 4xe, the MT, and the cam-eating 3.6. Dealers have no capacity to deal with anything else because of these 4 nightmare powertrains.

My short-hop use pattern wasn't ideal, so I reluctantly sold my EcoDiesel after nearly six years. In any case, I consider it the best Jeep engine ever. It will pull your house off it's foundation while getting 20+ mpg on every tank.

 

[Gomer Pyle]

I've decided to just hold on to my wife's '21 EcoDiesel for now as it only has 19.5k miles currently and the GDE Hot Tune has it purring. Whether or not it's the perfect diesel platform will always be debatable...but I can say I have a diesel Wrangler!

 

[driventoadventure]

Oh, boy, here we go agai

This is the perfect reaction to the post you responded to.

I actually love diesels. I even owned a diesel airplane (Diamond) for a short while, and I have a small diesel generator. The no-spark plug aspect is amazing. The constant load efficiency is second to none.

But note that my two diesel items had one thing in common - zero emissions control. One was mostly polluting above 10,000 ft, where it does not matter, The other was turned on a couple of hours a year. Emissions control on those, would make them instantly non-viable, just like in a Wrangler or Gladiator.

Ask yourself one question. Why did Jeep kill the Ecodiesel? Because it was a nightmare that cost them billions (mostly because of emissions).

It wasn't the emissions systems which caused their problems, it was their tuning, their decisions to use cheap/shit fuel pumps, their decisions to undersize certain aspects of cooling, and their decision to run critical engine wiring right by the exhaust which caused their warranty costs to make it so expensive.

 

[zouch]

so we agree that the "$6K" difference you're claiming isn't comparing apples to apples.

as we have both now said; the diesel didn't add $6K; it added ~$4K compared to a similarly equipped vehicle. (my Diesel Willys was 48,475 including ~$5K of options i wanted.)

The diesel option for me was $4k and another $2k for the beefier transmission that you have to have with the diesel option. It was an added $6k as soon as I selected the diesel option versus the 3.6L with a manual. Yes, one could argue technicalities, but I am just basing that figure on the cost on my window sticker of the two options that I have to get in order to have a diesel versus the manual(that did not cost extra) I would have gotten if the diesel option was not available.

 

[ALeeL]

so we agree that the "$6K" difference you're claiming isn't comparing apples to apples.

as we have both now said; the diesel didn't add $6K; it added ~$4K compared to a similarly equipped vehicle. (my Diesel Willys was 48,475 including ~$5K of options i wanted.)

As i said beforebwhen we had thisbvery same arguement, I agree that one could argue semantics and how one looks at things, whether it is the cost from a base Jeep Rubocon with a manual or one with an automatic. In the end, it really doesn't matter and not something worth spending the time we already have arguing over. If this really bothers you that I view it as a $6k option versus a base Jeep Rubicon with a manual, then fine I will say a $4k option this time. Happy?

Now please, stop letting such trivial things bother you.

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