Diesel coming back!?

[gato]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Light vehicle diesels were only a thing when the Euro standards let diesels pollute (real pollution NOX, PM) much more than gasoline engines, supposedly because of lower (not real pollution) CO2.

The second dieselgate happened, and the standards were tightened, it became obvious that diesels are the horrible, expensive, boat anchors that they are on light vehicles. The market share of diesels vs gasoline in Europe plummeted from as high as 85-90% is some countries to single digits.

Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads over long highway distances, diesels make no sense. The engines and aftertreatment are incredibly expensive, they trap heat, the whole DPF clogs up without the long heavy pull loads, and the running costs are horrible when you look at the ever increasing cost of diesel vs gasoline delta, the DPF fluid, the monstrous oil change bills, etc.

The Ecodiesel was good for one thing, and one thing only for Stellantis/Jeep - and that was to clog every dealership, along with the 4xe, the MT, and the cam-eating 3.6. Dealers have no capacity to deal with anything else because of these 4 nightmare powertrains.

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[ALeeL]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Light vehicle diesels were only a thing when the Euro standards let diesels pollute (real pollution NOX, PM) much more than gasoline engines, supposedly because of lower (not real pollution) CO2.

The second dieselgate happened, and the standards were tightened, it became obvious that diesels are the horrible, expensive, boat anchors that they are on light vehicles. The market share of diesels vs gasoline in Europe plummeted from as high as 85-90% is some countries to single digits.

Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads over long highway distances, diesels make no sense. The engines and aftertreatment are incredibly expensive, they trap heat, the whole DPF clogs up without the long heavy pull loads, and the running costs are horrible when you look at the ever increasing cost of diesel vs gasoline delta, the DPF fluid, the monstrous oil change bills, etc.

The Ecodiesel was good for one thing, and one thing only for Stellantis/Jeep - and that was to clog every dealership, along with the 4xe, the MT, and the cam-eating 3.6. Dealers have no capacity to deal with anything else because of these 4 nightmare powertrains.

 

[Soapy]

I stopped watching him when he got his inside source fired and really did not care that much.

 

[croppz]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Light vehicle diesels were only a thing when the Euro standards let diesels pollute (real pollution NOX, PM) much more than gasoline engines, supposedly because of lower (not real pollution) CO2.

The second dieselgate happened, and the standards were tightened, it became obvious that diesels are the horrible, expensive, boat anchors that they are on light vehicles. The market share of diesels vs gasoline in Europe plummeted from as high as 85-90% is some countries to single digits.

Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads over long highway distances, diesels make no sense. The engines and aftertreatment are incredibly expensive, they trap heat, the whole DPF clogs up without the long heavy pull loads, and the running costs are horrible when you look at the ever increasing cost of diesel vs gasoline delta, the DPF fluid, the monstrous oil change bills, etc.

The Ecodiesel was good for one thing, and one thing only for Stellantis/Jeep - and that was to clog every dealership, along with the 4xe, the MT, and the cam-eating 3.6. Dealers have no capacity to deal with anything else because of these 4 nightmare powertrains.

While I don’t like light duty diesels. I gotta say the Jetta TDI I had was great even though it was a cheat. 65 mpg was wild and I wasn’t even babying it.

That being said, they need to leave diesels in full size pickups that can take full advantage of what diesels have to offer. Light duty diesels are just a mess especially with all of the regulations surrounding them and how neutered they come from the factory. And honestly certainly not worth the increased maintenance costs. The 2.0t for example is already expensive the work on, we don’t need to double it .

 

[Nitehawk92]

That clip is my favorite part of the whole movie...

 

[Compression-Ignition]

Oh, boy, here we go again. Light vehicle diesels were only a thing when the Euro standards let diesels pollute (real pollution NOX, PM) much more than gasoline engines, supposedly because of lower (not real pollution) CO2.

The second dieselgate happened, and the standards were tightened, it became obvious that diesels are the horrible, expensive, boat anchors that they are on light vehicles. The market share of diesels vs gasoline in Europe plummeted from as high as 85-90% is some countries to single digits.

Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads over long highway distances, diesels make no sense. The engines and aftertreatment are incredibly expensive, they trap heat, the whole DPF clogs up without the long heavy pull loads, and the running costs are horrible when you look at the ever increasing cost of diesel vs gasoline delta, the DPF fluid, the monstrous oil change bills, etc.

The Ecodiesel was good for one thing, and one thing only for Stellantis/Jeep - and that was to clog every dealership, along with the 4xe, the MT, and the cam-eating 3.6. Dealers have no capacity to deal with anything else because of these 4 nightmare powertrains.

I'll take some derp with my derp, while I'm derping on the derp. I didn't watch the video matters not to me unless they do actually bring them back. I'd say 50/50 odds on that. There are definitely ways we can get and keep emissions under control other than killing diesel engines by having them regurgitate their exhaust and using extra fuel to burn off soot. But someone like you doesn't want to hear that.

You sound like you don't like diesel's for any use case other than trucking. Good thing everyone is allowed an opinion. Having said that, this is the diesel section of a WRANGLER ENTHUSIAST forum. See your way out and quit trying to bring others hopium highs down. It's bad form and just flat annoying. Hit the road.

 

[gato]

While I don’t like light duty diesels. I gotta say the Jetta TDI I had was great even though it was a cheat. 65 mpg was wild and I wasn’t even babying it.

Of course it was. But the compliant Jetta TDI was horrible, no one bought it, and it was killed. That TDI you had, cost VW about $18,000 in fines and recalls.

A Jetta GLI without emissions constraints would also have great performance, ridiculously low cost, would be much lighter, and have a much better weight distribution than that TDI. Oh, and your garage walls and wife's white dress would not be stained from being behind the exhaust.

 

[gato]

I'll take some derp with my derp, while I'm derping on the derp. I didn't watch the video matters not to me unless they do actually bring them back. I'd say 50/50 odds on that. There are definitely ways we can get and keep emissions under control other than killing diesel engines by having them regurgitate their exhaust and using extra fuel to burn off soot. But someone like you doesn't want to hear that.

No there isn't. If there was light vehicle diesels would not have vanished from the market the second emissions rules were enforced.

Every single diesel fan I have ever met, always says one of two things:

1 - I'll keep my pre-EPA/emissions/pre-DEF F250 or whatever forever. or
2 - I'll do a defeat.

No one wants to run diesels with all that emissions crap.

 

[croppz]

Of course it was. But the compliant Jetta TDI was horrible, no one bought it, and it was killed. That TDI you had, cost VW about $18,000 in fines and recalls.

A Jetta GLI without emissions constraints would also have great performance, ridiculously low cost, would be much lighter, and have a much better weight distribution than that TDI. Oh, and your garage walls and wife's white dress would not be stained from being behind the exhaust.

Other than the MPG, the car was kind of a POS to be honest. DPF cracked at 40k. Wiper motors dead before 40k. And the best part was diesel gate happened a week after I bought the damn thing. So I just drove the crap out of it and let VW buy it back lmao.

 

[gato]

You sound like you don't like diesel's for any use case other than trucking. Good thing everyone is allowed an opinion. Having said that, this is the diesel section of a WRANGLER ENTHUSIAST forum. See your way out and quit trying to bring others hopium highs down. It's bad form and just flat annoying. Hit the road.

I actually love diesels. I even owned a diesel airplane (Diamond) for a short while, and I have a small diesel generator. The no-spark plug aspect is amazing. The constant load efficiency is second to none.

But note that my two diesel items had one thing in common - zero emissions control. One was mostly polluting above 10,000 ft, where it does not matter, The other was turned on a couple of hours a year. Emissions control on those, would make them instantly non-viable, just like in a Wrangler or Gladiator.

Ask yourself one question. Why did Jeep kill the Ecodiesel? Because it was a nightmare that cost them billions (mostly because of emissions).

 

[gato]

Other than the MPG, the car was kind of a POS to be honest. DPF cracked at 40k. Wiper motors dead before 40k. And the best part was diesel gate happened a week after I bought the damn thing. So I just drove the crap out of it and let VW buy it back lmao.

We have a winner!!! Drive the shit of a diesel and have a buyback in the end. That is the way.

If Jeep ever brings the ecodiesel back (not going to happen) there is a good chance it all ends in buybacks as well. You may get lucky twice.


On a serious note: If Jeep/Stellantis were to bring the diesels back to NA, I can almost guarantee that it will be the Land Rover Inginium engines (2.0 and 3.0) form their MOU collaboration with Land Rover.

 

[2nd 392]

Chances of a small diesel are slim and none.
Uh Oh - Slim ……………..

fuhgeddaboudit .

 

[ALeeL]

Why is it always the people that don't have something, the loudest critics? Maybe the reason why they creep around a diesel section is because they have sour grapes syndrome wishing they had the diesel, but can't so they have to blast them to make themselves feel better. That is my guess. I mean, I don't creep around the 2.0L . 3.6L or 392 sections because I have no want or desire for those engines. Not saying they are bad, it is just I have the engine I wanted so no need to linger and put down what others have.

For what it is worth, I have had several light duty diesels over the years and I would own them again in a heartbeat. I wish I still had my 335d but it got t-boned. My current 328d is a blast to drive around the turns with gobs of low end torque that makes it feel like a V8 below 2,500 rpm. After 12 years and 160k miles, I am still hand calculating 45+ mpg at the end of every tank. Only issue was a $40 coolant pipe cracking that took me about three hours to fix.

 

[zouch]

i'm still rather fond of the torque i get out of the EcoD.
and 28.5 MPG gave me range that was unbeatable.

(no, i don't get MPG like that any more with everything i've done to it but i'm not aware of any current powerplant that would be doing any better... and i still get the torque.)

 

[alphawolff]

this engine will never return. it was a warranty cost nightmare, let alone the epa nonsense

small diesels that require $20k worth of emissions bullshit to even be road legal aren't worth producing

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