Diesel coming back!?

[ALeeL]

Yet in the configurator when the Diesel was offered, if you switched from a Jeep with the Diesel, and only switched to the gas engine, it did not make the Jeep 6k cheaper, did it? No. So it's ridiculous to use that as the hill you've chosen to defend in the argument. The exact same Jeep with a gas engine is not 6k cheaper when truly comparing a Jeep where the engine is different but everything else is the same.

It switched you to a gas engine with an optional upgraded automatic, which is not standard equipment. You still have an option in the mix. If I didn't get the diesel, then I would have gotten a V6 with a manual, which is the base without any added options. I would have preferred the diesel with a manual because I think automatics are for ....... well, I am not going to go there.

So for you, when comparing a V6 with the optional automatic, which was $4,500 upgrade for the V6 and a $2,500 option for the 2.0L, there was a different cost to upgrade to a diesel since you are starting with another option. Although, both had a lighter duty automatic than the diesel and not the same as the 8HP75 in the diesel and 392.

For me, I am comparing to the base vehicle, which is a V6 with a manual and it costs $6k from there.

Sponsored

 

[jeepingib]

It switched you to a gas engine with an optional upgraded automatic, which is not standard equipment. You still have an option in the mix. If I didn't get the diesel, then I would have gotten a V6 with a manual, which is the base without any added options. I would have preferred the diesel with a manual because I think automatics are for ....... well, I am not going to go there.

So for you, when comparing a V6 with the optional automatic, which was $4,500 upgrade for the V6 and a $2,500 option for the 2.0L, there was a different cost to upgrade to a diesel since you are starting with another option. Although, both had a lighter duty automatic than the diesel and not the same as the 8HP75 in the diesel and 392.

For me, I am comparing to the base vehicle, which is a V6 with a manual and the diesel costs $6k from there.

But the blanket statement that it is a 6k option is not correct, because the exact same Wrangler with only the engine being different was not 6k. Similarly when comparing the then new 2021 392, people didn't consider it a 50k upgrade by comparing it to the base model. It was compared to the Rubicon that was similarly equipped.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-pricing-msrp-details
Because that's the logical thing to do.

 

[Ratbert]

But the blanket statement that it is a 6k option is not correct, because the exact same Wrangler with only the engine being different was not 6k. Similarly when comparing the then new 2021 392, people didn't consider it a 50k upgrade by comparing it to the base model. It was compared to the Rubicon that was similarly equipped.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-pricing-msrp-details
Because that's the logical thing to do.

That's probably the best analogy on the topic so far.

 

[ALeeL]

But the blanket statement that it is a 6k option is not correct, because the exact same Wrangler with only the engine being different was not 6k. Similarly when comparing the then new 2021 392, people didn't consider it a 50k upgrade by comparing it to the base model. It was compared to the Rubicon that was similarly equipped.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-pricing-msrp-details
Because that's the logical thing to do.

The 392 was and still is, it's own trim/model that can only have the 392 engine option. You could not get any other engine with that trim/model so that was the base engine.

I am not talking about the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 392. I am talking about the regular Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon where the base engine and transmission was the V6 with the manual and upgrading that to a diesel was $6k.

 

[2nd 392]

But the blanket statement that it is a 6k option is not correct, because the exact same Wrangler with only the engine being different was not 6k. Similarly when comparing the then new 2021 392, people didn't consider it a 50k upgrade by comparing it to the base model. It was compared to the Rubicon that was similarly equipped.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-pricing-msrp-details
Because that's the logical thing to do.

Exactly what I did. Said it before but I optioned up a diesel as closely as possible to the 392 build (SOT $2K vs $4K) the cost for a small lift but not the iron knuckles because I thought diesel’s had them. The difference was ~mid 5K’s not including the unknown valve of the hood system or frame reinforcement.
Launch price $73.5K , he must have added shipping. The first price increase about July before mine was built.

 

[jeepingib]

The 392 was and still is, it's own trim/model that can only have the 392 engine option. You could not get any other engine with that trim/model so that was the base engine.

I am not talking about the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 392. I am talking about the regular Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon where the base engine and transmission was the V6 with the manual and upgrading that to a diesel was $6k.

If you want to compare using Monroney stickers then it's even easier. What does the sticker say the cost is of the 3.0D? 4k to 4.5k depending on year. Plain and simple. That is the apples to apples without justifying, "I wouldn't choose this option or that option if I didn't get the Diesel" which is disingenuous at best.

 

[ALeeL]

If you want to compare using Monroney stickers then it's even easier. What does the sticker say the cost is of the 3.0D? 4k to 4.5k depending on year. Plain and simple. That is the apples to apples without justifying, "I wouldn't choose this option or that option if I didn't get the Diesel" which is disingenuous at best.

It states $4.5k with another $2k for the 8HP75 that I am forced to get with the diesel, so that is how much it cost me to get the diesel compared to my other option, which just so happen to be the base option for the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon.

Also, if you ask 100 people to give you price comparisons from apples to apples on a vehicle, you will likely get multiple answers because what is apples to apples to you, may not be the same for someone else. One person might think apples to apples is engine power or torque being similar between the two. Another may engine size, engine configuration or forced induction versus forced induction, and so on. However, if you said give me a price comparison from a base of that trim/model, the answer will always be the same.

That is why it is standard practice to state the cost from base model and not one that is "apples to apples" across our dealerships and industry. It is even why the review sites, and even a Jeep dealer gave you the cost based from the base model along with a few stating what it would be from an automatic.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-gladiator-ecodiesel-first-test-review
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-rubicon-ecodiesel-first-test
https://www.planetchryslerjeepdodge.net/3-0l-v6-eco-diesel-engine-review
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/2021-jeep-gladiator-rubicon-4x4-review/
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/444696/2021-jeep-gladiator-ecodiesel-first-drive-review/
https://tflcar.com/2019/10/report-the-2020-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-will-cost-6000-extra/
https://www.cars.com/articles/2020-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-real-world-fuel-economy-414306/
https://www.drivingline.com/articles/daily-diesel-2020-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-ecodiesel-review/

 

[jeepingib]

It states $4.5k with another $2k for the 8HP75 that I am forced to get with the diesel, so that is how much it cost me to get the diesel compared to my other option, which just so happen to be the base option for the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon.

Also, if you ask 100 people to give you price comparisons from apples to apples on a vehicle, you will likely get multiple answers because what is apples to apples to you, may not be the same for someone else. One person might think apples to apples is engine power or torque being similar between the two. Another may engine size, engine configuration or forced induction versus forced induction, and so on. However, if you said give me a price comparison from a base of that trim/model, the answer will always be the same.

That is why it is standard practice to state the cost from base model and not one that is "apples to apples" across our dealerships and industry. It is even why the review sites, and even a Jeep dealer gave you the cost based from the base model along with a few stating what it would be from an automatic.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-jeep-gladiator-ecodiesel-first-test-review
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-rubicon-ecodiesel-first-test
https://www.planetchryslerjeepdodge.net/3-0l-v6-eco-diesel-engine-review
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/2021-jeep-gladiator-rubicon-4x4-review/
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/444696/2021-jeep-gladiator-ecodiesel-first-drive-review/
https://tflcar.com/2019/10/report-the-2020-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-will-cost-6000-extra/
https://www.cars.com/articles/2020-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-real-world-fuel-economy-414306/
https://www.drivingline.com/articles/daily-diesel-2020-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-ecodiesel-review/

The sticker shows the 4.5k, or 4k depending on year and model. That is the cost of the engine. Period, end of story. That is the difference between the Wrangler with it, or without it. The rest is just justification for all the hoops you are trying to jump through to make it fit your narrative. We don't need to poll 100 people or look at other articles, because for every one you have showing it one way, there is another showing it the other. I even posted one about this which is a much broader comparison as it does require an entirely different trim level to be chosen. But what did they compare? The closest comparable of each. I get it that you personally would compare them differently, but that is a personal choice, not a comparative scenario.

 

[ALeeL]

The sticker shows the 4.5k, or 4k depending on year and model. That is the cost of the engine. Period, end of story. That is the difference between the Wrangler with it, or without it. The rest is just justification for all the hoops you are trying to jump through to make it fit your narrative. We don't need to poll 100 people or look at other articles, because for every one you have showing it one way, there is another showing it the other. I even posted one about this which is a much broader comparison as it does require an entirely different trim level to be chosen. But what did they compare? The closest comparable of each. I get it that you personally would compare them differently, but that is a personal choice, not a comparative scenario.

I tell you what, you email or contact all those review sites and Jeep dealer telling them that they are wrong for posting that the cost to get the diesel is $6,000 since it is not "apples to apples". And if you can get at least one to say that they were wrong to do so, then I will relent. Savy?

 

[Grayhound]

Added a poll to spice it up a lil bit!

 

[jeepingib]

I tell you what, you email or contact all those review sites and Jeep dealer telling them that they are wrong for posting that the cost to get the diesel is $6,000 since it is not "apples to apples". And if you can get at least one to say that they were wrong to do so, then I will relent. Savy?

It makes it pretty plain in many of the articles you posted even...

The V6 gas engine with automatic is $2,750, and the 2.0L turbo with automatic costs $1,500. So, the EcoDiesel cost is a $4,500 upcharge from the four-cylinder turbo and a $3,250 upcharge from the V6 gas motor.

Looking at the V6 engines on offer in an apples-to-apples, it costs $3,250 more than the 3.6-liter gasoline-powered V6 with an automatic transmission.

The order guide for the 2020 lineup and shows that the Wrangler Diesel will cost you a whopping $6,000, or $3,250 more than a base V-6 Wrangler equipped with the eight-speed automatic.

Damn reading is difficult.

 

[ALeeL]

It makes it pretty plain in many of the articles you posted even...




Damn reading is difficult.

Why didn't you quote the FULL paragraphs and sentences to that instead of cherry picking?

Here are some more for ya.

https://www.quadratec.com/c/blog/jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-awarded-four-wheelers-2020-suv-year

https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g29764333/2020-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-by-the-numbers-gallery/

https://txgarage.com/2020/01/jeeps-wrangler-unlimited-ecodiesel-more-torque-more-mileage-more-money/

This reminds me of another conversation I had at the airport not to long ago on a business trip. A gentleman I was talking to, after finding out that I was in the heavy duty auto industry for over 25 years, proceeded to tell me that we should stop doing flag rate in our shops and how his way was a lot better. The guy was a regional manager for a clothing store with not even one minute of experience in automotive telling me how we are doing it wrong and his way is better.

Yes, I told him why we use flag rates, but he was adamant that the whole industry was wrong and his regional sales manager clothing experience was better. Luckily, he sat in the back of the plane when we boarded.

 

[BDinTX]

Apparently reading can be difficult.

PlanetChrysler:
For Jeep Wrangler, the EcoDiesel with automatic is $6000. The V6 gas engine with automatic is $2,750, and the 2.0L turbo with automatic costs $1,500. So, the EcoDiesel cost is a $4,500 upcharge from the four-cylinder turbo and a $3,250 upcharge from the V6 gas motor. EcoDiesel is only available with automatic transmission.

I can't find the sections you pasted in but I do see these:
CNET:
The one big demerit against the Gladiator EcoDiesel is its price. The diesel engine upgrade is a full $6,000 -- $4,000 for the engine itself and then $2,000 for the mandatory eight-speed automatic transmission.

Motortrend Article 1:
Just getting the diesel engine under the hood costs $6,000, $4,000 for the engine and another $2,000 for the mandatory automatic transmission upgrade Jeep has the gall to list as an option.

Motortrend Article 2:
The EcoDiesel engine is effectively $6,000 more than the standard V-6 ($4,000 for the engine, and $2,000 for the required automatic transmission), and $4,500 more than the turbo-four (the engine is baked into the price, but the required transmission is $1,500).

 

[ALeeL]

@jeepingib and @zouch

Maybe lets take a step back and understand why I see things the way I do, we can come to a common ground or at least see why each other views it differently.

I understand that you see the diesel and transmission as separately because they are listed separately on the build sheet instead of as a option package. However, within the industry, anytime an option requires another option, with no other option, it is what we call an option package. Sometimes manufacturers label them separately, sometimes they label them as an option package together, and sometimes they don't even let you know the changes that an option makes. Regardless, anytime one option requires another option, we see them as being together and therefore the costs are combined in our perspective.

Case in point are the other things the diesel option changes like rear gear to only being 3.73 with the diesel, different springs, and a beefier front axle(from what I am told), which are not called out in the package, but are a prerequisite for the diesel option. Ford and other automakers do this all the time. We see them as one option package even though Jeep, or any other make, does not explicitly say they are an option package.

So while you may see them as separate options, I along with many others within the industry(like in the articles) see these as apart of the options package that should always be combined together. Hence the reason why I do not see them as a separate option like you may be doing.

The reason why we always look at an options costs from the base or standard vehicle is due to standardization, simplicity, ease of quoting and explaining costs and just plain the way it has always been done, among a few other things.

So, the reason why I see the diesel and transmission as an option package instead of separately, is because that is the way those inside the industry looks at them. I understand that people outside the industry may look at them separately and there are probably things within our own profession that those outside the profession, like myself, would not understand or may see differently.

I hope that helps to at least understand why I see these as being a part of the same option package and therefore costs. After 25 years of working with various automotive, heavy duty, and engine manufacturers/dealers, it is just engrained in me to look at them that way.

 

[zouch]

it's just math. doesn't matter what you do at work.

looking at the Monroney sticker makes it abundantly clear to most folks. remove that Diesel option; ~$4K less, not $6K less. that's the definition of a difference in basic arithmetic.

don't worry about it so much.

@jeepingib and @zouch

Maybe lets take a step back and understand why I see things the way I do, we can come to a common ground or at least see why each other views it differently.

I understand that you see the diesel and transmission as separately because they are listed separately on the build sheet instead of as a option package. However, within the industry, anytime an option requires another option, with no other option, it is what we call an option package. Sometimes manufacturers label them separately, sometimes they label them as an option package together, and sometimes they don't even let you know the changes that an option makes. Regardless, anytime one option requires another option, we see them as being together and therefore the costs are combined in our perspective.

Case in point are the other things the diesel option changes like rear gear to only being 3.73 with the diesel, different springs, and a beefier front axle(from what I am told), which are not called out in the package, but are a prerequisite for the diesel option. Ford and other automakers do this all the time. We see them as one option package even though Jeep, or any other make, does not explicitly say they are an option package.

So while you may see them as separate options, I along with many others within the industry(like in the articles) see these as apart of the options package that should always be combined together. Hence the reason why I do not see them as a separate option like you may be doing.

The reason why we always look at an options costs from the base or standard vehicle is due to standardization, simplicity, ease of quoting and explaining costs and just plain the way it has always been done, among a few other things.

So, the reason why I see the diesel and transmission as an option package instead of separately, is because that is the way those inside the industry looks at them. I understand that people outside the industry may look at them separately and there are probably things within our own profession that those outside the profession, like myself, would not understand or may see differently.

I hope that helps to at least understand why I see these as being a part of the same option package and therefore costs. After 25 years of working with various automotive, heavy duty, and engine manufacturers/dealers, it is just engrained in me to look at them that way.

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