College isn't worth it

[UKCATS]

Yes, there are much more credible news sources, like CNN or MSNBC, or........ bwahahahahah! Sorry, I couldn’t even finish that sentence with a straight face.

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[plex]

I am a college professor and I agree there are some majors in College are pretty wasted. However, "vocational school is so much better than college" is such a broad statement. Say will you rather be a welder sacrificing your health inhaling dirty fume, or you can take some time going through college but be an engineer design for better robotic welder?

 

[ChimpanZed]

I was a NASA engineer for a decade. I flew the International Space Station. I've since moved to the private sector.

Can OP refer me to the vocational school that teaches rocket science? I'd like my kid to follow in my footsteps... on a budget, of course.

 

[Doug Huse]

In my last year of high school in 1964, we had options of Wood Shop, Metal Shop, Drafting, Auto Shop, and Home Economics teaching sewing and cooking. In the 90s, my stepchildren had their choice of College Prep courses or quit school. They were programmed to fail! They went to the same school I did in So. Cal. I started a good paying job (for a 17 year old) that my mother worked for three days after I graduated. I didn't like it, but it was "what Mom wanted." Four months later, I joined the Air Force. After four years gone, I returned home and returned to the same job because it was "what Mom wanted." After doing that job for eleven months, I was hired into Law Enforcement because "it was what I wanted!" No college degree needed at that time. I took a four dollar a month cut in pay. After more than 31 years I retired with a decent retirement and no regrets. I never looked back.
2 points.
High Schools, today, are shortchanging our children, not preparing them for the future.
College is not the only path for a happy, successful life.

Just my 2 cents worth, well, maybe 3 cents. Keep the drive shaft on the bottom.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I was a NASA engineer for a decade. I flew the International Space Station. I've since moved to the private sector.

Can OP refer me to the vocational school that teaches rocket science? I'd like my kid to follow in my footsteps... on a budget, of course.

Never said it teaches rocket science now. Science is part of stem, which is what college is still good for, but if Jr. Didn't wanna follow and instead work on engines, he doesn't need a college degree.

Must be fun to be a rocket scientist btw

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I am a college professor and I agree there are some majors in College are pretty wasted. However, "vocational school is so much better than college" is such a broad statement. Say will you rather be a welder sacrificing your health inhaling dirty fume, or you can take some time going through college but be an engineer design for better robotic welder?

Some people like dirty jobs, some people are just lucky and some people will stick with STEM and stuff.

If we were all the same, be communism and this is America, not China

 

[GoHack]

In my last year of high school in 1964, we had options of Wood Shop, Metal Shop, Drafting, Auto Shop, and Home Economics teaching sewing and cooking. In the 90s, my stepchildren had their choice of College Prep courses or quit school. They were programmed to fail! They went to the same school I did in So. Cal. I started a good paying job (for a 17 year old) that my mother worked for three days after I graduated. I didn't like it, but it was "what Mom wanted." Four months later, I joined the Air Force. After four years gone, I returned home and returned to the same job because it was "what Mom wanted." After doing that job for eleven months, I was hired into Law Enforcement because "it was what I wanted!" No college degree needed at that time. I took a four dollar a month cut in pay. After more than 31 years I retired with a decent retirement and no regrets. I never looked back.
2 points.
High Schools, today, are shortchanging our children, not preparing them for the future.
College is not the only path for a happy, successful life.

Just my 2 cents worth, well, maybe 3 cents. Keep the drive shaft on the bottom.

In our Grammar School back in the '60's, we had half a year of Drafting, and the other half, Wood Shop, using nothing but basic hand wood working tools. No power tools of any kind.

In High School, for our Freshman and Sophomore years, we had half a year of Woodshop, and the other half, Metal, and in our Junior and Senior Years, we could pick which ever one we preferred, which in my case, was Metal. Also In my Senior Year, I took a Special Drafting class, which they called Engineering Drafting, given to me by my Metal Shop teacher. I was the only student in the class.

When I went on to Technical College, we had to take both Drafting and Machine Shop there as part of their curriculum, which I both aced, thanks to my prior classes in grade school, so those were well worth it.

On one of my first jobs, I was an Engineer Aide straight out of Technical College, where I was actual showing engineers how to read Blue Prints, I kid you not. I would also surprise my superiors about how I could get things done, w/very little priority on the project for which I was assigned, done in our Production Machine Shop, "ALL" thanks to my prior training. I was handed a handful of blue prints, and told to get them made, which I did.

 

[MedicalCowboy]

I guess I’ll finally chime in on this. I went to college to be a medic. Worked on an ambulance 70 hours or more a week making just enough to get by. I got fed up with all the political crap at my company and decided to learn a trade. Got hired at a mechanical contractor and started there apprenticeship. I’m now a plumber, gasfitter, pipefitter, and crane operator. I agree it’s not for everybody, but neither is college. Just don’t assume because you went to college that the guy underneath the hard hat next to you is just construction trash that’s uneducated.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Yes, there are much more credible news sources, like CNN or MSNBC, or........ bwahahahahah! Sorry, I couldn’t even finish that sentence with a straight face.

 

[viper88]

I saw this very old thread by accident. I was just talking to a friend about the cost of education and ROI.

There are some municipal jobs that do not require a 4 year degree that pay good and have excellent benefits. Someone would need to have the right personality for the job though.

An example. The Chicago Police Department is hiring. Starting pay today is about $74K a year after the 12 month probationary period. Plus overtime. The overtime is HUGE today. A friend's daughter graduated from a very good 4-year university and she wanted to follow in her dad's footsteps. She joined the CPD. She has been on the job for 2 years and is on schedule to earn over $100K this year. Some veteran CPD officers make $180K-$200K with their overtime. CPD benefits are excellent also.

You do no need a 4-year degree to be a Chicago Police Officer. Anyone interested would need to relocate and live in the city of Chicago. These are the requirements. And they are actively hiring NOW.

• Candidates cannot enter into the Police Academy until they reach the age of 21 and may not enter after the age of 40.
• 60 semester hours (90 quarter hours) from an accredited college or university, or 3 years active duty, or one year active duty and 30 semester hours (45 quarter hours)
• A valid Driver’s License
• A valid FOID
• Actual Resident of the City of Chicago
• Permanent resident of the United States (Citizenship is NOT required)

https://home.chicagopolice.org/bethechange/chicago-police-officer-recruitment/

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I saw this very old thread by accident. I was just talking to a friend about the cost of education and ROI.

There are some municipal jobs that do not require a 4 year degree that pay good and have excellent benefits. Someone would need to have the right personality for the job though.

An example. The Chicago Police Department is hiring. Starting pay today is about $74K a year after the 12 month probationary period. Plus overtime. The overtime is HUGE today. A friend's daughter graduated from a very good 4-year university and she wanted to follow in her dad's footsteps. She joined the CPD. She has been on the job for 2 years and is on schedule to earn over $100K this year. Some veteran CPD officers make $180K-$200K with their overtime. CPD benefits are excellent also.

You do no need a 4-year degree to be a Chicago Police Officer. Anyone interested would need to relocate and live in the city of Chicago. These are the requirements. And they are actively hiring NOW.

• Candidates cannot enter into the Police Academy until they reach the age of 21 and may not enter after the age of 40.
• 60 semester hours (90 quarter hours) from an accredited college or university, or 3 years active duty, or one year active duty and 30 semester hours (45 quarter hours)
• A valid Driver’s License
• A valid FOID
• Actual Resident of the City of Chicago
• Permanent resident of the United States (Citizenship is NOT required)

https://home.chicagopolice.org/bethechange/chicago-police-officer-recruitment/

Except most cops would be moving to Florida or Texas instead, they've been burned by the politics in these blue cities

 

[roaniecowpony]

All the reasons why someone shouldn't go to college are just excuses. The kid either has the smarts, is inclined, ambitious, and dedicated toward a particular field or not. Is the kid the kind to finish a long term commitment? If the answer is no to these questions, likely they're not a candidate worth sending to an expensive college. Maybe a trade tech or JC and local state college are their path. But as others have mentioned, if their desire is to be in engineering, accounting, marketing, doctor, lawyer, business management, public service, politician, airline pilot, military officer, etc., it's a degree or the highway. And in some cases, an expensive, well known college is needed for particular fields.

College is no path to a sure thing career or high pay. That comes from a few things, being smart is one, being dedicated, good work ethic is now almost mandatory in any white collar job and most blue collar jobs, and just dumb luck getting breaks to good high pay positions. Let's not forget other very important traits. Is the person a leader? Well spoken? Well written? Self-confident? And even a person's physical traits still matter a great deal in much of the world. Highly successful people have more of these traits than other people...and they got/made some breaks in their lives.
But if a kid is coming up with reasons not to go to college, the discussion is over, IMO. You're just pushing on a rope, after that.

Here's some data from the Social Security Administration. Mind you, this is a estimation of the US workforce average. While some HS dropouts will become multimillionaires, that's a real longshot. If we're not talking about the next Richard Branson, the path to a better life is college. It won't turn a bump on a log into Elon Musk, but it will raise that particular person up a notch, maybe more.

 

[viper88]

All the reasons why someone shouldn't go to college are just excuses. The kid either has the smarts, is inclined, ambitious, and dedicated toward a particular field or not. Is the kid the kind to finish a long term commitment? If the answer is no to these questions, likely they're not a candidate worth sending to an expensive college. Maybe a trade tech or JC and local state college are their path. But as others have mentioned, if their desire is to be in engineering, accounting, marketing, doctor, lawyer, business management, public service, politician, airline pilot, military officer, etc., it's a degree or the highway. And in some cases, an expensive, well known college is needed for particular fields.

College is no path to a sure thing career or high pay. That comes from a few things, being smart is one, being dedicated, good work ethic is now almost mandatory in any white collar job and most blue collar jobs, and just dumb luck getting breaks to good high pay positions. Let's not forget other very important traits. Is the person a leader? Well spoken? Well written? Self-confident? And even a person's physical traits still matter a great deal in much of the world. Highly successful people have more of these traits than other people...and they got/made some breaks in their lives.
But if a kid is coming up with reasons not to go to college, the discussion is over, IMO. You're just pushing on a rope, after that.

Here's some data from the Social Security Administration. Mind you, this is a estimation of the US workforce average. While some HS dropouts will become multimillionaires, that's a real longshot. If we're not talking about the next Richard Branson, the path to a better life is college. It won't turn a bump on a log into Elon Musk, but it will raise that particular person up a notch, maybe more.

Totally agree.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

All the reasons why someone shouldn't go to college are just excuses. The kid either has the smarts, is inclined, ambitious, and dedicated toward a particular field or not. Is the kid the kind to finish a long term commitment? If the answer is no to these questions, likely they're not a candidate worth sending to an expensive college. Maybe a trade tech or JC and local state college are their path. But as others have mentioned, if their desire is to be in engineering, accounting, marketing, doctor, lawyer, business management, public service, politician, airline pilot, military officer, etc., it's a degree or the highway. And in some cases, an expensive, well known college is needed for particular fields.

College is no path to a sure thing career or high pay. That comes from a few things, being smart is one, being dedicated, good work ethic is now almost mandatory in any white collar job and most blue collar jobs, and just dumb luck getting breaks to good high pay positions. Let's not forget other very important traits. Is the person a leader? Well spoken? Well written? Self-confident? And even a person's physical traits still matter a great deal in much of the world. Highly successful people have more of these traits than other people...and they got/made some breaks in their lives.
But if a kid is coming up with reasons not to go to college, the discussion is over, IMO. You're just pushing on a rope, after that.

Here's some data from the Social Security Administration. Mind you, this is a estimation of the US workforce average. While some HS dropouts will become multimillionaires, that's a real longshot. If we're not talking about the next Richard Branson, the path to a better life is college. It won't turn a bump on a log into Elon Musk, but it will raise that particular person up a notch, maybe more.

Of course you go with the Govt source for the chart.

Difference though is, save up and own a business, don't wind up in debt, and if you TRULY need collage (Spelt thusly because it's a joke), go to a cheap community college since a degree's a degree, save thousands and don't get balls deep into debt for an outdated piece of paper

https://alawyerandhermoney.com/college-actually-not-worth-the-cost/
https://admissionsly.com/why-college-isnt-worth-it/
https://owlcation.com/academia/Top-6-Reasons-College-Is-Overrated

Again, there are those destined for jobs that require it, but if you're not gonna be a liar, a Scientitute, a Doc or Murse, glorified public servant (pol... do they really require degrees though?)... I'm suddenly doubting every one of those jobs needs a degree though, sure there's ways around it

"The Disadvantage of Going to College in Two Words – Student Loans
Mindless college cheerleading can set people back in their finances in a way that even stupid decisions like buying a sportscar cannot. As John Mulaney jokes, a duffel bag filled with fake cocaine is better than a college degree because at least you get a duffel bag. You can sell that duffel bag for money, whereas no one is going to buy your college degree.
If you are wealthy, you assume you go to college. Whether or not you attend likely won’t have major implications in your life.
If you are not wealthy, you must weigh heavily your decision to go to college. You don’t have a pile of money to fall back on. You are the most likely to be ruined if they make the wrong choice."

Again, better to get financial literacy and figure out how to properly invest than go to collage

 

[Walker Texas Wrangler]

I'll chime in, as I seem to be the "exception" to your rule.

Firstly, I was the middle child and sandwiched between 2 very intelligent siblings. I was never much of a student, but if something interested me, I totally nerded out and learned everything about it. Not much in school interested me. My dad was a lifelong middle school history teacher and valued education. I was told at an early age that I was going to college. We were obviously middle class but my dad saved and saved for our education and was going to pay for our college. This plan was pretty good for my siblings. But I just didn't feel like I was destined to be a college student. I got decent grades, but spend most of the days daydreaming.

My dad recognized this and the fact that I wasn't super mature at 17 when I graduated and had me attend the local community college for a year (my siblings went straight to universities). I offered to go into the national guard to pay for my own school so that my parents could save some money. He promptly said no. That if that was something I wanted to do, I would have to finish school and go in as an officer. He was in the national guard and I later learned why he felt this way (long story). We also lived where a GM foundry was and I was thinking about going to work there. The money was good. He told me my body would give out and I'd be in bad shape when I got older and wouldn't have much to show for it.

I went to Jr. college and did well. I had always been a talented self-taught artist and decided I would like to be an Architect. Figured it was a good way to make a living and I was interested in it. But the math needed was killing me, especially an engineering graphics class where I was hand drawing orthographic projections (basically CAD by hand) just wasn't what I was into. I took a basic drawing class as a prerequisite for architecture and fell in love. But I was a realist and wasn't going to waste my dads hard earned money learning to draw on his dime.

When the time came to transfer to University I decided to forgo Architecture and instead focus on Commercial Art/Graphic Design. My dad asked it I could make a living doing it. I explained I could and he was fine with it. I ended up graduating with a BS in art and was gainfully employed in my field for 25 years and moving up the chain. I approached a white collar job with a blue collar mentality. It paid off for me. I would also note, that my siblings are not working in their fields they studied. But, I wouldn't have gotten my foot in the door without my degree.

I went into business for myself 4 years ago, still designing. I may have gotten here without the education, but it provided me with the tools I needed to get in the door.

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