College isn't worth it

[Rogues Gambit]

Totally forgot about the Campus experience, and especially title 9.

Those days of wild parties and getting laid are a distant memory with how gynocentric things are

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[JB4818]

On the contrary, I did attend a state university (living on campus) to receive a Masters degree in 5 years. My parents were unable to help with paying for my education, so I did what I could to get scholarships and working part time, but I still graduated with about $50K in loans (a one year Masters program is expensive-50% of loans). I never moved back in with my parents after graduating and I am on track to finish paying off these loans this year on my 30th birthday.

My parents worked hard their entire careers, but as blue collar workers, there was always something that would set them back. My dad had a workplace injury that took years to resolve during which financials where very tight. Growing up with this, I knew that I wanted something better, in which I did not rely on my body to make an income.

College is overpriced and student loan debt is too high, but paying for an education helps your take it seriously by taking ownership. Student loans have delayed getting married, buying a house, and being able to take a risk to start a business. However, I believe my education was worth it. College is not for everyone and trade schools have their place. If someone is planning on attending school, they should either know what they want to do or plan on taking community college courses to figure it out.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

On the contrary, I did attend a state university (living on campus) to receive a Masters degree in 5 years. My parents were unable to help with paying for my education, so I did what I could to get scholarships and working part time, but I still graduated with about $50K in loans (a one year Masters program is expensive-50% of loans). I never moved back in with my parents after graduating and I am on track to finish paying off these loans this year on my 30th birthday.

My parents worked hard their entire careers, but as blue collar workers, there was always something that would set them back. My dad had a workplace injury that took years to resolve during which financials where very tight. Growing up with this, I knew that I wanted something better, in which I did not rely on my body to make an income.

College is overpriced and student loan debt is too high, but paying for an education helps your take it seriously by taking ownership. Student loans have delayed getting married, buying a house, and being able to take a risk to start a business. However, I believe my education was worth it. College is not for everyone and trade schools have their place. If someone is planning on attending school, they should either know what they want to do or plan on taking community college courses to figure it out.

Curious, what did you major in?

 

[anotherWS6]

Another major problem with college in general is that you're asking a still not even fully developed mind to make a choice that is going to be one of the biggest in their lives. For some it's mostly fine - Like "I've wanted to be a doctor since I was 3 and still do." OK, that may work out great.

I spent all of those years in community college with no idea what I wanted. I had zero guidance, not even from my parents. I have been obsessed with cars since birth but didn't have the ability to figure out what to do with that passion and all of the knowledge I had. Every suggestion that I had would be shot down by my mother. She even forbade me to take a VW car sales job that I actually GOT when I was 19. The manager was that impressed by me. In hindsight I should have taken the job, used the money for a cheap place of my own and I'm sure the relationship with my mother would have worked out fine. G knows how much different/better my life would be. Instead I spent years aimlessly taking classes. many did but several dozen credits never got transferred to my eventual university.

Mom wanted me to pick a "good" career, looking only at earnings potential and stability. I worked in body shops and spent a few years working in nightmarish low income housing rehab jobs. And was miserable. I had one semester to take the ret of BS classes at my university before I HAD to pick a major. So I picked accounting. FUCKING ACCOUNTING! That's what mom went for. My older sister majored in finance. They both went to the same university I attended. So I basically followed suit, same type of major at the exact same school because I had no idea what to do and was brainwashed into thinking that future career stability was the most important thing. And now I've spent 12 years doing something I hate while daydreaming about what I want. I've made good money but am absolutely FUCKED right now for several reasons including divorce. I have wasted 20 years of my life. And I am still paying student loans.

I wish I could help make sure kids understand......so many things. I've been proud of my degree, made me feel good, feel like I'm doing the "right" thing. But all of that has been fading and now I live with nothing but regret.

College isn't for everyone. The most important thing is to follow your passion, at least within reason. And between having parents and now being a parent guess what I know? PARENTS DONT KNOW EVERYTHING. Find me all of the parents of 17 year olds getting ready for college who tell their kids that.

 

[Fire Burns]

Our oldest, a high school senior, has a partial scholarship to play D1 baseball at a great private university in Northern California. Since nobody gets full rides for baseball, we're subsidizing tuition with our passed along military benefits, such as the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Both my wife and I are serving still but already have master's degrees and don't need the GI bill for ourselves. Also, his school is supports the Yellow Ribbon program, where the university waives any portion of tuition costs NOT covered by the Post 9/11 GI Bill. So with the scholarship, we should have zero bills upon graduation...theoretically..

Hell, we may even see full recoupment of all the Pony ball, travel ball, baseball trips all around the country, a decade's worth of baseball equipment, tournament fees, hitting lessons, and showcases!

For the other 3 less athletically gifted kids, we enforce good grades and will be seeking academic scholarships, plus more passed along military and VA benefits available for the public universities in California.

All of that said, if these benefits were not available to us, we definitely would be pushing the trade school route vs. never ending college debt. Heck, I still have about a $2,000 balance after graduating from an inexpensive public university 20 years ago!

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Another major problem with college in general is that you're asking a still not even fully developed mind to make a choice that is going to be one of the biggest in their lives. For some it's mostly fine - Like "I've wanted to be a doctor since I was 3 and still do." OK, that may work out great.

I spent all of those years in community college with no idea what I wanted. I had zero guidance, not even from my parents. I have been obsessed with cars since birth but didn't have the ability to figure out what to do with that passion and all of the knowledge I had. Every suggestion that I had would be shot down by my mother. She even forbade me to take a VW car sales job that I actually GOT when I was 19. The manager was that impressed by me. In hindsight I should have taken the job, used the money for a cheap place of my own and I'm sure the relationship with my mother would have worked out fine. G knows how much different/better my life would be. Instead I spent years aimlessly taking classes. many did but several dozen credits never got transferred to my eventual university.

Mom wanted me to pick a "good" career, looking only at earnings potential and stability. I worked in body shops and spent a few years working in nightmarish low income housing rehab jobs. And was miserable. I had one semester to take the ret of BS classes at my university before I HAD to pick a major. So I picked accounting. FUCKING ACCOUNTING! That's what mom went for. My older sister majored in finance. They both went to the same university I attended. So I basically followed suit, same type of major at the exact same school because I had no idea what to do and was brainwashed into thinking that future career stability was the most important thing. And now I've spent 12 years doing something I hate while daydreaming about what I want. I've made good money but am absolutely FUCKED right now for several reasons including divorce. I have wasted 20 years of my life. And I am still paying student loans.

I wish I could help make sure kids understand......so many things. I've been proud of my degree, made me feel good, feel like I'm doing the "right" thing. But all of that has been fading and now I live with nothing but regret.

College isn't for everyone. The most important thing is to follow your passion, at least within reason. And between having parents and now being a parent guess what I know? PARENTS DONT KNOW EVERYTHING. Find me all of the parents of 17 year olds getting ready for college who tell their kids that.

If I still listened to my parents, wouldn't be writing or dealing with an artist. Problem is most people are "College or bust!"

Obviously, spend our 20's making mistakes and failing a few times with things, but gotta learn

Also, I feel terrible for you bro, though on the bright side, got an impressive collection. Curious though, what would you rather be doing?

Side note, surprised I haven't noticed anyone who did what I've been saying, where they or their kids went to trade schools and used the original collage funds for a down payment on a house or business instead or something of that nature

 

[JB4818]

Curious, what did you major in?

To quote:

I picked accounting. FUCKING ACCOUNTING!

I do agree with the problem on choosing a major so young in life that anotherWS6 brought up. I was 15 when I decided Accounting was what I wanted to do. I took high school classes to prep for Accounting and the college that I pick because it was a great Accounting school. If only someone told me that I would have actually loved to be an Engineer, or at least I believe I would have loved it. Too late now (not really, but it is my wife's turn to rack up student loan debt now and I don't want to do the college thing again).

 

[JB4818]

Side note, surprised I haven't noticed anyone who did what I've been saying, where they or their kids went to trade schools and used the original collage funds for a down payment on a house or business instead or something of that nature

For a lot of people, there were not "college funds" to use. Scholarships are not usually awarded to 18 year olds with no plan to attend college. Government subsidized student loans are also not available. A bank is not going to give an 18 year old a loan with no experience, down payment, or steady income source for a house a business.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

To quote:

I do agree with the problem on choosing a major so young in life that anotherWS6 brought up. I was 15 when I decided Accounting was what I wanted to do. I took high school classes to prep for Accounting and the college that I pick because it was a great Accounting school. If only someone told me that I would have actually loved to be an Engineer, or at least I believe I would have loved it. Too late now (not really, but it is my wife's turn to rack up student loan debt now and I don't want to do the college thing again).

Yeah, that's the thing, and of course, parents ship your ass out RIGHT outta Highschool, like "Glad you graduated and enjoyed summer, now off ya go to the indoctrination center where whatever you major in, you'll wind up a white collar worker starting off with a 6 figure salary"

For a lot of people, there were not "college funds" to use. Scholarships are not usually awarded to 18 year olds with no plan to attend college. Government subsidized student loans are also not available. A bank is not going to give an 18 year old a loan with no experience, down payment, or steady income source for a house a business.

Why a year or two should be spent working, and also trying various things out, like instead of a semester at Collage, how much would it be to try voc school, or just see if someones willing to letcha shadow them.

Think the Gen after Millennials that the filthy globalists were unable to corrupt will buck the trend tremendously

 

[timn1984]

That's a fair statement regarding the original post. College isn't for everyone. Trade Schools are underappreciated. Serious money can be made, but it is hard work. I personally think the Engineering Schools have made it easier for kids to get through college with little dept. At least the University of Louisville. They require their engineering students to do Co-ops (for which they get paid about $15-$20 an hour). These are 3 month stints and they have to do 3 of them in their years, every other semester. This is great because the student can earn money while learning on the job. However the same cannot be said of other professions, such as Pharmacy. Pharmacy students are expected to pay tuition their last year(an average of $20-40 thousand dollars a year) AND work 8 six week rotations, with NO PAY, not ever setting foot on the grounds of the university. This is slave labor and should be stopped.
If education is a REQUIREMENT for our society the universities are putting it out of reach for most kids, unless their parents are very rich, OR unless they want to go into debt. Who wants to go into debt????????
Just my 2 cents....

 

[Rogues Gambit]

That's a fair statement regarding the original post. College isn't for everyone. Trade Schools are underappreciated. Serious money can be made, but it is hard work. I personally think the Engineering Schools have made it easier for kids to get through college with little dept. At least the University of Louisville. They require their engineering students to do Co-ops (for which they get paid about $15-$20 an hour). These are 3 month stints and they have to do 3 of them in their years, every other semester. This is great because the student can earn money while learning on the job. However the same cannot be said of other professions, such as Pharmacy. Pharmacy students are expected to pay tuition their last year(an average of $20-40 thousand dollars a year) AND work 8 six week rotations, with NO PAY, not ever setting foot on the grounds of the university. This is slave labor and should be stopped.
If education is a REQUIREMENT for our society the universities are putting it out of reach for most kids, unless their parents are very rich, OR unless they want to go into debt. Who wants to go into debt????????
Just my 2 cents....

Couldn't of said it better myself.

Also, doesn't matter what grade you graduate with, so long as you graduated

A student's wind up working for C students they say

 

[BroncoWranglerski]

Went to a small community college in Upper Michigan and got a 2 year degree in Water and wastewater technology. Got a job 6 weeks before I graduated and the college said you got your degree now get to work. I may not have the most glorious job in the world but 35 years later I have a great retirement plant, health care that cant be beat and 435 hours of Paid Time Off built up which gets me a nice tidy sum of money when I retire in a year or so.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

I disagree with the overly simplistic premise of this thread. If college truly wasn’t worth it, given how expensive it’s become they’d probably cease to exist as an institution because people wouldn’t pay for it. It’s an oversimplification of a vastly complex situation.

I went to college directly out of high school but didn’t finish (long story). I didn’t incur debt because I had scholarships, both athletic and academic. I was never poor but didn’t earn what I felt (knew) I was worth throughout my career. I was not living up to my full potential financially.

So I went back to school as a working adult and paid my tuition as I went. Since completing my degree I am immensely more marketable and my earning power has soared. My increased salary in the first year was more than the total cost of my studies. I earn about 40% more with my degree than before I had it. I was easily able to get a job with a much better company, with less responsibility and stress than I had before, earning a lot more money. Doing the same type of work. This is due solely to the fact that I have a college degree. Without it the opportunity would not have even been available to me. There are very few people working for my large company that hold mid level management or higher positions without a degree. If I wanted to remain a member of labor or first line supervision or low level management for my entire career, not having a college education would be fine. I would earn a respectable living. There’s nothing wrong with that. My parents did that as do many other people that I admire and respect. For me, a college degree has opened doors of opportunity that I want to go through that would absolutely not be available to me otherwise.

 

[crazychile]

@Chocolate Thunder , My situation was similar to yours. My education definitely opened up some opportunities. But what I take from all this is that the decision isn't as clear as it was 20-30 years ago. When I got out of High School, it was drilled into our heads that you had to go to college, where in my parents generation, only the exceptionally bright or upper class did it. That auto recommendation of 30 years ago has outlived it's sensibilities given the exponential price increases, and that fields of study have to be considered carefully.

As an example, 30 years ago someone with virtually ANY college degree got hired over the non-college because college graduates were still an overall lower percentage of the total workforce, and the hiring manager wisdom of that day was to hire grads because it showed that someone could follow through with something and be disciplined. That distinction doesnt really exist any more when virtually everyone has gone to college.

So with the insane college debt problem and no guarantee of a job, (which I believe exploded with the financial crisis of 2008ish) plus the ill effects of Globalisation, the decision isn't as easy any more.

And the thing about many trade jobs is that some guy in India can't build your house remotely from some cubicle in Hyderabad.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

I agree with most of what you said. My point is that getting a college degree is far from worthless or that it’s not worth the cost. If you don’t take on crippling debt or get a degree that doesn’t get a job that’s well paid.

Obviously there will always be jobs that don’t require college grads. Some of them great jobs that pay very well.

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