Sponsored

Cold climate = no go

AVGeek99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
545
Reaction score
781
Location
Delano, MN
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLUR, 2021 Sahara 4xe (wife's)

gerlbaum

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
229
Reaction score
190
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangle Sport Diesel

The_Irish_Weaver

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
24
Messages
232
Reaction score
504
Location
Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport S - 2-door - Manual
Good luck running your Jeep on crude, even if you happen to have an oil well in the yard. Meanwhile, you can literally slap solar panels on the roof and charge your electric vehicle at home. Again, I disagree with the governments time line, nor them forcing us to do anything, but virtually nobody is harvesting their own fuel on property and running their vehicle off of it using fossil fuels. Don’t worry, even without the government stepping in, your gas vehicle will go the way of points ignitions and carburetors as better performance and efficiency sell themselves.

good luck believing your batteries are "clean".....

The costs of rare earth mining in Baotou, China - Sustainable development (weebly.com)

this is from 2015....and its WAY worse now.

Slap solar panels on your car and charge it.....really.....exactly how many sunlight hours would it take to recharge a car? in time for your next morning commute....overnight???? you cant be serious
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
7,749
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
good luck believing your batteries are "clean".....

The costs of rare earth mining in Baotou, China - Sustainable development (weebly.com)

this is from 2015....and its WAY worse now.

Slap solar panels on your car and charge it.....really.....exactly how many sunlight hours would it take to recharge a car? in time for your next morning commute....overnight???? you cant be serious
The solar panels go on your house, thus the charging at home? Most add an energy storage system these days, thus you can still charge your car using solar energy at night. Bury your head in the sand, do nothing, burn up all of the world's non-renewable fossil fuels, and fuck our great grand children, they can just walk everywhere? Only a fool thinks any energy source is 100% clean. The idea that a battery pack that can be recharged thousands of times is worse than the status quo of pumping, piping, shipping, refining, shipping, and then burning up fossil fuels is insane. Perfectly clear and impact free? Of course not. More renewable and sustainable? Obviously. The anti-ev crowd is hilarious, "they have to mine the lithium, EV bad". Where do they get all the metals in your ICE vehicle? Mines. Gold, platinum, iron ore, copper mines are fine, but draw the line at lithium right?
 
Last edited:

sconrad24

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
351
Reaction score
328
Location
PA
Vehicle(s)
2016 Willys JKU, 2021 4XE
good luck believing your batteries are "clean".....

The costs of rare earth mining in Baotou, China - Sustainable development (weebly.com)

this is from 2015....and its WAY worse now.

Slap solar panels on your car and charge it.....really.....exactly how many sunlight hours would it take to recharge a car? in time for your next morning commute....overnight???? you cant be serious
Cleaner and greener are better words for EVs. Not clean and green by any stretch. I 've read that it takes 3-8 years for them to catch up and pass ICE in terms of being better for the environment. So day 1 an EV or PHEV is not greener and if a owner replaces it every few years, the ev may actually have been more harmful for the time the owner had it. All depends on where you get your electricity from. Mines a combo of nuclear and natural gas, so overall me running in ev mode is better than me using gas. The title of greenest (literally and figuratively) jeep on my block though is the TJ up the street. The owner originally bought it in 2006, drives 3000 miles a year and has no intention of replacing.
 

Sponsored

The_Irish_Weaver

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
24
Messages
232
Reaction score
504
Location
Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport S - 2-door - Manual
Cleaner and greener are better words for EVs. Not clean and green by any stretch. I 've read that it takes 3-8 years for them to catch up and pass ICE in terms of being better for the environment. So day 1 an EV or PHEV is not greener and if a owner replaces it every few years, the ev may actually have been more harmful for the time the owner had it. All depends on where you get your electricity from. Mines a combo of nuclear and natural gas, so overall me running in ev mode is better than me using gas. The title of greenest (literally and figuratively) jeep on my block though is the TJ up the street. The owner originally bought it in 2006, drives 3000 miles a year and has no intention of replacing.
exactly....the environmental damage done before you even drive that EV off the lot far surpasses what driving a modern low emissions gas vehicle for a few years does. People have all these "feel good" misconceptions about EVs on a grand scale. I have no problems with them as a niche product....great for inner cities and urban places where driving is limited, charging stations can be plentiful, the localized emissions will be reduced, and the environmental activists can live in a happy bubble. But to have the federal government set a date a few years from now to tell the entire country that this has to be they way.....thats absolutely reckless and misguided.....ESPECIALLY when you see who has their interests in things like Lithium in Afghanistan and China.
 
OP
OP
Slaw32

Slaw32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
200
Reaction score
234
Location
S e south dakota
Vehicle(s)
2022 willy's sport
I don't know how many here also follow another forum called the 4xe forum . There are alot of posts from our canadian brothers and sisters that are having issues in their cold winter climate as winter is setting in and how it is effecting their experience with this platform . As a point of reference , I thought I would point that out .
 

The_Irish_Weaver

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
24
Messages
232
Reaction score
504
Location
Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport S - 2-door - Manual
The solar panels go on your house, thus the charging at home? Most add an energy storage system these days, thus you can still charge your car using solar energy at night. Bury your head in the sand, do nothing, burn up all of the world's non-renewable fossil fuels, and fuck our great grand children, they can just walk everywhere? Only a fool thinks any energy source is 100% clean. The idea that a battery pack that can be recharged thousands of times is worse than the status quo of pumping, piping, shipping, refining, shipping, and then burning up fossil fuels is insane. Perfectly clear and impact free? Of course not. More renewable and sustainable? Obviously. The anti-ev crowd is hilarious, "they have to mine the lithium, EV bad". Where do they get all the metals in your ICE vehicle? Mines. Gold, platinum, iron ore, copper mines are fine, but draw the line at lithium right?
home solar panels dont charge a home....they off-set the electrical load on the house and grid. do you have solar panels on your home? i do....when the grid goes down from a storm/black/brownout you dont maintain power in your home...no matter how bright the sun shines. And when they need to do local line work from storm damage or maintenance...they have to come and shut-down the house so you dont backfeed the system and electrocute the workers. You really are conflating separate things....you get home from work at 6pm....your home solar panels arent recharging your car that you plug in overnight....the fossil fuel power plant is.

lets not even mention whats required to make solar panels......precious metals mined from the earth...once again!
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
7,749
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
Cleaner and greener are better words for EVs. Not clean and green by any stretch. I 've read that it takes 3-8 years for them to catch up and pass ICE in terms of being better for the environment. So day 1 an EV or PHEV is not greener and if a owner replaces it every few years, the ev may actually have been more harmful for the time the owner had it. All depends on where you get your electricity from. Mines a combo of nuclear and natural gas, so overall me running in ev mode is better than me using gas. The title of greenest (literally and figuratively) jeep on my block though is the TJ up the street. The owner originally bought it in 2006, drives 3000 miles a year and has no intention of replacing.
The average vehicle on the road is 12 years old, well past the break even point. Unless you total a car every 2 years, over the lifespan of the vehicles the EV is still far greener wether you are still driving it or someone else is. Obviously anyone buying a new vehicle every 2 years doesn’t give a damn about their impact on the environment. That 3-8 year estimate is far too general, here is a more real world breakdown. If your electricity comes from hydroelectric or solar, the break even point is as little as 8k miles. That’s months in a commuter vehicle not years. If your electricity is 100% coal sourced, it will be 80k+ miles before you break even

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...lectric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
There are alot of posts from our canadian brothers and sisters that are having issues in their cold winter climate as winter is setting in and how it is effecting their experience with this platform .
Yes, many of them are having issues with the vehicle not performing as they think it should perform rather than how it is supposed to perform.

That is more indicative of a communication issue with Jeep than it is a technical issue.

In cold weather, one isn't always going to be able to run in pure electric. That's inconsistent with how some people want to use the vehicle but isn't necessarily inconsistent with how the vehicle is supposed to be used. Yes, there is an efficiency hit that goes along with that. There's an efficiency hit with diesels in the cold too. And people put winter tires on to adapt to the cold, etc. (The point being that everyone changes how they use their vehicle to adapt to the environment, no matter what engine)

Should the dealership have better communicated that to someone shopping a 4xe in thise climates? Absolutely. Everyone should be aware of how the item behaves in different conditions.

That's not the same thing as saying that the vehicle doesn't work in the cold and it is not the same thing as saying that there isn't a net fuel/emissions savings using the vehicle in those environments.

There are some people that are having genuine issues but there are a lot of people passing off the vehicle functioning as designed as issues because it isn't doing what they think it should do.
 

Sponsored

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
7,749
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
home solar panels dont charge a home....they off-set the electrical load on the house and grid. do you have solar panels on your home? i do....when the grid goes down from a storm/black/brownout you dont maintain power in your home...no matter how bright the sun shines. And when they need to do local line work from storm damage or maintenance...they have to come and shut-down the house so you dont backfeed the system and electrocute the workers. You really are conflating separate things....you get home from work at 6pm....your home solar panels arent recharging your car that you plug in overnight....the fossil fuel power plant is.

lets not even mention whats required to make solar panels......precious metals mined from the earth...once again!
I can’t tell if you’re dense or only read half what I say. Most people running EV’s these days are also using an energy storage system with their solar (Tesla power wall or other battery bank) as I clearly stated in my last post. Yes the solar does charge your house (actually the batteries in/on your house). A simple transfer switch will allow you to disconnect your home from the mains and still use your solar/energy storage in a power outage (not to mention my power has been out a total of ~8hrs in the last decade). My power comes primarily from hydroelectric plants and a bio waste fueled plant, so even if I charge from the grid it is not fossil fuels. We get it, your plan is to burn up all the fossil fuels and then become Amish, doesn’t work for me.
 

The_Irish_Weaver

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
24
Messages
232
Reaction score
504
Location
Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport S - 2-door - Manual
I can’t tell if you’re dense or only read half what I say. Most people running EV’s these days are also using an energy storage system with their solar (Tesla power wall or other battery bank) as I clearly stated in my last post. Yes the solar does charge your house (actually the batteries in/on your house). A simple transfer switch will allow you to disconnect your home from the mains and still use your solar/energy storage in a power outage (not to mention my power has been out a total of ~8hrs in the last decade). My power comes primarily from hydroelectric plants and a bio waste fueled plant, so even if I charge from the grid it is not fossil fuels. We get it, your plan is to burn up all the fossil fuels and then become Amish, doesn’t work for me.
solar battery banks are great especially for off-grid use....they are not common in suburban and urban homes by any means. They are much more expensive, take up more room in the house (especially if they are the sole energy source) and have a shelf-life that makes it not at all economical for the common suburban/urban house.

Im a licensed architect with over 25 years experience, im very openminded to new technology and using less waste, and if you've read my previous comments like you've claimed i haven't...you'd see that i think EV is a fantastic niche product for dense cities and that my problem is government mandates for nationwide application and termination of gas vehicles.

as seen in cold weather conditions/areas from this thread...these EVs are potentially dangerous to people who may be stranded or unable to use in emergency conditions.
 

The_Irish_Weaver

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
24
Messages
232
Reaction score
504
Location
Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport S - 2-door - Manual
The average vehicle on the road is 12 years old, well past the break even point. Unless you total a car every 2 years, over the lifespan of the vehicles the EV is still far greener wether you are still driving it or someone else is. Obviously anyone buying a new vehicle every 2 years doesn’t give a damn about their impact on the environment. That 3-8 year estimate is far too general, here is a more real world breakdown. If your electricity comes from hydroelectric or solar, the break even point is as little as 8k miles. That’s months in a commuter vehicle not years. If your electricity is 100% coal sourced, it will be 80k+ miles before you break even

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...lectric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

my coworker has a honda civic hybrid - 2004. just had to replace his battery ...for the 2nd time. his batteries average lifespan was 5.6 years. most people dont keep cars that long, he did - and thats real life numbers i can share.

the battery cost and labor was more than the value of the car....he did it only because of sentimental value (his deceased mother bought him the car) - but the average person definitely would not bear this expense
 

sconrad24

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
351
Reaction score
328
Location
PA
Vehicle(s)
2016 Willys JKU, 2021 4XE
I don't know how many here also follow another forum called the 4xe forum . There are alot of posts from our canadian brothers and sisters that are having issues in their cold winter climate as winter is setting in and how it is effecting their experience with this platform . As a point of reference , I thought I would point that out .
I stay away from that site. Most threads are 1 post posters writing in about either the vehicle shutting down on the highway or a CEL. Most post and dont come back, which is no help to anyone searching for answers. Would be nice if they came back and updated with any fixes that were done.
 
OP
OP
Slaw32

Slaw32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
200
Reaction score
234
Location
S e south dakota
Vehicle(s)
2022 willy's sport
I stay away from that site. Most threads are 1 post posters writing in about either the vehicle shutting down on the highway or a CEL. Most post and dont come back, which is no help to anyone actually searching for answers.
May want to check again , there seems to be some back and forth . Didn't pay attention to the name of the thread but it is more than a couple of pages .
Sponsored

 
 



Top