Car & Driver PHEV breakeven

[Pig-Pen]

Isn't the 15yr/150k mile a warranty for emissions related equipment only? That's been my understanding i.e. Cat converters, EVAP, PCV, that sort of thing.

In CA, the hybrid system is covered to 15 years.
Now it makes me think maybe we didnt need to buy the extended warranty for our pacifica hybrid. Most of the stuff that has had issues has been hyrbid related. Only one non-hybrid issue so far which was covered under the standard warranty. We’re way past that now due ti mileage.

Oh well, wife commutes a LOT, so need to keep it tip top. Just dropped it off yesterday due to isssues with the charging port, (hybrid warranty).

I thought it was just 15 years? Didnt know about the 150k part. We’re almost at 100k.

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[Steemax]

In CA, the hybrid system is covered to 15 years.
Now it makes me think maybe we didnt need to buy the extended warranty for our pacifica hybrid. Most of the stuff that has had issues has been hyrbid related. Only one non-hybrid issue so far which was covered under the standard warranty. We’re way past that now due ti mileage.

Oh well, wife commutes a LOT, so need to keep it tip top. Just dropped it off yesterday due to isssues with the charging port, (hybrid warranty).

I thought it was just 15 years? Didnt know about the 150k part. We’re almost at 100k.

wow I had no idea, well that puts me more at ease and I was just about to pull the trigger on the extended Mopar warranty but it wasn’t clear if it covered anything related to the hybrid system.

thanks for the info!

 

[mtbjeep]

Serious question... what makes a bike $10,000? And is it that much better than say spending, idk, $1,000? I know nothing about the bicycle world and am trying to wrap my head around that figure!

The more expensive the bike is the higher it's expected performance. The only way to increase a bikes performance (outside of the fitness of the rider) is to decrease its weight. To do this effectively requires a large amount of money in engineering, R&D and tooling for exotic materials fabrication. The bike not only needs to be as light as possible but it also has to handle many years of use & abuse without failing, especially if it is a mountain bike. This all costs a LOT of money. Unfortunately these days, if purchased new, the $1,000 bike is a piece of garbage.

The more capable a jeep gets the heavier it gets; its the exact opposite with bikes.

 

[Fusilli]

Serious question... what makes a bike $10,000? And is it that much better than say spending, idk, $1,000? I know nothing about the bicycle world and am trying to wrap my head around that figure!

Bicycles are a balance between performance and comfort. In the mountain bike world, add stability at speed, maneuverability, and durability. Material advances and changing geometries have improved bikes an incredible amount over the past 10 or 15 years. All these advances comes at a cost, and the target market for high-end bikes is relatively small, so the price per bike is high.

Yes, a $10,000 bike will be a completely different experience from a $1,000 bike. For the person with a passion for their riding, the differences will justify the expense.

 

[rickinAZ]

C&D ignored the federal and state credits available for the 4xe. I'll agree that without those credits (and the ability to plug-in every night, ideally with kilowatts that were produced by solar panels), the 4xe is a non-starter. I just bought my second one, and the discounts and credits lowered a $63,000 Sahara to $48,000, which is a whole lot cheaper than the ICE version of the same vehicle. After 5 weeks I just filled it for the first time with 4 gallons of gas. I'll also admit to not being real happy about all the money the government is handing out to try to get us to buy plug-in or electric vehicles, and all the additional dollars now being handed out to install chargers that the owner companies make a good buck on, but the money's there for the taking. Eventually our politicians will run out of "other people's money".

The $15K that you mentioned is surprisingly high. What are the piece-parts to that discount? I get the federal/state subsidies, but any discount from MSRP would seem to apply to JLs with ICE power as well. How did it go from $63K to $48K, cause that's a hell of a deal? $48K would make me interested if I was in the market for a new Jeep.

BTW, I largely ignore the forum posts about unreliability. Vocal minority. My only misgiving, ironically, is the agricultural-sounding four-cylinder that's the underpinning to the powerplant. And...the Pentastar has no low-end torque. Ford is winning the engine war for now.

 

[Skeethree]

The $15K that you mentioned is surprisingly high. What are the piece-parts to that discount? I get the federal/state subsidies, but any discount from MSRP would seem to apply to JLs with ICE power as well. How did it go from $63K to $48K, cause that's a hell of a deal? $48K would make me interested if I was in the market for a new Jeep.

BTW, I largely ignore the forum posts about unreliability. Vocal minority.

It's a combination of federal tax credits, state credits (NJ), and dealer markdowns. Unfortunately, the only way to get all those credits to to lease, and then buy out the lease as soon as you'd like. For some reason our erstwhile president (without getting political) decided to continue the federal credits to the leasing companies, but not individual buyers. For individuals, he cut the amount in half, and also put an income limit on it as well. The dealership I purchased from also had some Grand Cherokee 4xe's with an even greater discount. They do beat you up for a ridiculous doc fee, and also a $995 "lease fee".

 

[rickinAZ]

Our ‘24 Rubicon X 4Xe started at 76850 and ended up at 61 and change after tax incentives and dealer discounts plus the entire purchase price was a business write off because of the weight. The worst mpg with no charging available on vacation was 17.5 mpg and by far it’s the most fun Jeep to drive that we’ve owned (6th Jeep). The performance is 2nd only to the Hemi.

If you pay MSRP and make too much to use the tax incentives the numbers are not good but who’s paying MSRP these days?

From a financial analysis standpoint dealer discounts are applicable to all models and shouldn't be used as a differentiator for break-even purposes.

 

[BXFXJeep]

In my opinion the fuel savings you get from the hybrid factor isn't worth it when you're making unscheduled service visits every other oil change.

Fortunately the absolutely insane warranty covers just about every part of the powertrain. It's 15 years/150k miles here in cali. Even stuff like the A/C compressor is covered under it. Absolute insanity.

As a guy who works on these every single day I couldn't recommend one unless you use it as a second vehicle and genuinely do not mind it being in the shop time from time. They're nice when they're working properly.

Since I picked up my 4xe on November 2021, I have made exactly 3 trips to the dealership, which I would have had to make in any case for oil changes, and routine inspection.

No more no less.

1 - oil change + updates - 2022
2 - ZB7 + oil change + updates - 2023
3 - B9A + 04B + oil change + updates - 2024

I would have had to go in once a year for the oil changes regardless.

That said my 2018 and previous Wranglers went in for regular maintenance, and oil changes a few times a year, then add mandatory weekly gas station visits into the mix of "unscheduled service visits"

My fuel savings is paying almost zero to drive the 4xe vs $7 a gallon at 15 mpg, for the last 30 years I went every single week to fill up Wranglers, the 4xe I fill up maybe 4-6 a year. I don't pay for , is also 8-14 cents a kWh.

Previously I paid $400-$450 a month at the gas station, now it's $400 a year if that.

This 4xe is in a class of it's own, the best of 6 Wranglers I have owned over 30 years, YJ, TJ, 2 JKs, JL, and now 4xe.

The only difference with the 4xe, I take it back to a Jeep dealership for oil changes, prior Wranglers very very rarely ever went back to the dealership, unless I was in a jam for an oil change.

YMMV with the 4xe know what you are buying.

 

[Sidewalk]

Serious question... what makes a bike $10,000? And is it that much better than say spending, idk, $1,000? I know nothing about the bicycle world and am trying to wrap my head around that figure!

It's diminishing returns. A $1000 bike is going to be crap. $2000 is going to be okay. $4000 is pretty good. $8000 is reaching just shy of top notch. $16,000 and you are buying the best you can get attached to a well regarded brand name.

Mine isn't from one of those brand names, so I basically saved about $4000. But I'm missing a few top notch components: full integrated cockpit (handlebars and stem are one piece carbon), carbon seat rails, mid tier tires (which I already replaced anyway), etc.

I race mountain bikes as am amateur pro (meaning I lose against the best) so I kinda take this sport seriously, while working a blue collar job

 

[BXFXJeep]

Serious question... what makes a bike $10,000? And is it that much better than say spending, idk, $1,000? I know nothing about the bicycle world and am trying to wrap my head around that figure!

My bike is $10K CAD, by the time you add taxes, a "soft top", 3 f&#king locks, racks it's almost $15,000CAD

https://scooteretti.com/products/urban-arrow-family-cargo

 

[Yogi1956]

From a financial analysis standpoint dealer discounts are applicable to all models and shouldn't be used as a differentiator for break-even purposes.

Then it doesn’t matter if you use them or don’t use them. The tax advantages were the edge for us.

 

[HeN2O2]

Interesting read. Scroll down and you'll find the break-even chart. They calculated BE for four models. The "best" was 335K miles and the worst was near 1.3M miles. Gulp.

Federal/state incentives may help make up some ground. Honestly, the draw for me is low-end torque (hence my EcoDiesel), but I thought that there was some fuel savings to be had - even counting the premium price.

To be clear I am very open-minded on PHEVs. I'd even consider a Wrangler 4xe for my next Jeep.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...g-does-it-take-to-pay-back-higher-phev-prices

For the ICE-loving Luddites (that may include me) I fear that this train may have already left the station.

Please no politics.

Gasoline and diesel consumers in NV and AZ are in for a big surprise when California’s low carbon fuel standards kick in next year (CALNEV and SFPP West pipelines supply gasoline and diesel to Las Vegas and Phoenix).

PHEVs will start looking better over time.

The California Air Resources Board Low Carbon Fuel Standard 2023 amendments impact assessment released in September found the proposed reforms would raise costs that drivers would feel at the pump.

Gas prices are estimated to rise by 47 cents per gallon in 2025 and 52 cents in 2026, not including the existing gas tax in the state.

They estimated diesel prices could increase by 59 cents per gallon in 2025 and 66 cents in 2026. From 2031 to 2046 the report found gasoline prices could increase by $1.15 per gallon and diesel by $1.50 per gallon.

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