Brake pads make a difference?

[roaniecowpony]

Teraflex could not sell a brake system at this price with out all the parts being off the shelf parts
They put together an assume well designed brake system that exceeded all my expectation
One note. Before I installed the Teraflex brakes I put Baer SS4 on the rear of my Willys when I had 35in tires. That was a $1300 mistake. They made very little difference and squeaked so loud it was ear piercing and are very poorly designed. I contacted Baer about the squeaking and no response

Again here is the response from Teraflex

Taylor Black (Teraflex)
Dec 26, 2023, 09:08 MST

Hey Larry,
We are all still here. I just call a different guy "Boss". That's all. We have no intentions of discontinuing the Delta Brake system, we have plenty in stock, and you should not have any concerns about
product availability. We will be having these brakes for the foreseeable future.

I think Teraflex posted on this forum about the Delta calipers being machined in their facility in the US and that the rotors are indeed proprietary (not from another application).

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[CarbonSteel]

that's great, for *your* money.
again, wallet isn't the issue.

point is, *if* i was to get anything, points would go to parts that
- are readily available for replacement parts, and/or
- are from a company that's established enough in that market.

if (again, *if*) i were to get something aftermarket, some of the other sources you listed might be considered better established in their market, and last i checked, Teraflex didn't even list replacement parts for their kit on their website. add in their recent buyout and their corporate future and future parts support is even more in question.
if (as @Willys41 suggested) we were to find out what other readily available rotors fit, that would carry some weight in the decision process. until then, the rotors being heavy isn't a good thing (more unsprung weight is not a Good Thing); all that might matter is their minimum thickness rating for the 1 or 2 times it might be possible to turn them before you hope that Teraflex still has them available.

i've spent enough vacation time out of state in salvage yards looking for parts i needed because they weren't available elsewhere; WonderPup enjoyed it more than i did, and i'm in no hurry to put myself in that position any further.

i'm hoping this thread gets back on track soon and we hear more about pads soon, and less about people trying to sell others on their fav complete brake update..

IMHO you are trying to create a solution for a problem that does not exist (totally your prerogative to do so) combined with speculation as to whether or not you would even wear out a set of rotors much less not being able to replace them. Teraflex has stated more than once the rotors are available separately as a replacement.

As for the brake pads, as I have said more than once there is NO brake pad on the planet that can compensate for the inadequate braking power of the OEM braking system--especially on a Jeep that has more weight and larger tires.

It is a fool's errand to think that it is possible...

 

[Whaler27]

The rotors are larger as is the pad contact area, but the magic is 4 pistons on all 4 calipers for a total 16 pistons versus 6.

The clamping force is exponentially higher than OEM and because the pistons are pushing on both sides simultaneously, less pedal effort is required for more braking pressure.

As far as the rotors not being interchangeable, it is much ado about nothing. I would guess than many of the brake rotors included with aftermarket brake systems are not interchangeable with anything OEM nor would you want them to be.

The Teraflex rotors are not only thicker, but much heavier. You may eventually wear them out, but it will not be any time soon. You could always run softer pads and allow them to be the "sacrificial anode".

I can’t speak to the Teraflex system, as I haven’t owned it, but I can underscore the impact of multiple pistons putting the pinch on durable, well-designed rotors. When you consider that the same jeep, with the same load, on the same tires can stop two or three jeep-lengths sooner from 60 mph, it’s a difference worth paying for — potentially a jeep-saving, or life-saving, difference.

Have you had any emergency stops in the last ten years? I have. Given that, for me, any concern about potential parts availability 100,000 miles from now takes a back seat. If the unlikely worst-case scenario is I have to find another brake system in a few years, so be it. You can’t swing a stick without hitting a wrangler these days, and new jeeps are stupid-expensive, so the stability of the aftermarket parts economy is better than it’s been in my 45+ years of jeep ownership. I’m betting Teraflex and Alcon will be here. If not, I’m confident there will be accessible solutions to a brake system failure, no matter where in the USA it may occur.

I’ve paid close attention to driving behaviors for decades. I’m convinced that people are getting dumber, more substance-impaired, more distracted, and more oblivious every year — at least in Oregon. I routinely talk to people who are 200 miles into Oregon and have no idea what the speed limit is… because they don’t bother to note all the signs posted along the highways. In the winter I routinely see people driving in the mid-80s or faster, in the fog, in the dark, after passing large, flashing, signs warning of fog freezing on the roadways — even after passing multiple crashed vehicles that are in the process of being recovered. We have over 40,000 crashes per year here. Our crash fatality rate continues to climb sharply, in spite of the fact that vehicles are the safest they have ever been. People are truly, unimaginably, stupid — and they’re just waiting for a chance to swerve into your lane or slam on the brakes in front of you. Good brakes and tires are the most important vehicle investment (For me).

 

[CarbonSteel]

I can’t speak to the Teraflex system, as I haven’t owned it, but I can underscore the impact of multiple pistons putting the pinch on durable, well-designed rotors. When you consider that the same jeep, with the same load, on the same tires can stop two or three jeep-lengths sooner from 60 mph, it’s a difference worth paying for — potentially a jeep-saving, or life-saving, difference.

Have you had any emergency stops in the last ten years? I have. Given that, for me, any concern about potential parts availability 100,000 miles from now takes a back seat. If the unlikely worst-case scenario is I have to find another brake system in a few years, so be it. You can’t swing a stick without hitting a wrangler these days, and new jeeps are stupid-expensive, so the stability of the aftermarket parts economy is better than it’s been in my 45+ years of jeep ownership. I’m betting Teraflex and Alcon will be here. If not, I’m confident there will be accessible solutions to a brake system failure, no matter where in the USA it may occur.

I’ve paid close attention to driving behaviors for decades. I’m convinced that people are getting dumber, more substance-impaired, more distracted, and more oblivious every year — at least in Oregon. I routinely talk to people who are 200 miles into Oregon and have no idea what the speed limit is… because they don’t bother to note all the signs posted along the highways. In the winter I routinely see people driving in the mid-80s or faster, in the fog, in the dark, after passing large, flashing, signs warning of fog freezing on the roadways — even after passing multiple crashed vehicles that are in the process of being recovered. We have over 40,000 crashes per year here. Our crash fatality rate continues to climb sharply, in spite of the fact that vehicles are the safest they have ever been. People are truly, unimaginably, stupid — and they’re just waiting for a chance to swerve into your lane or slam on the brakes in front of you. Good brakes and tires are the most important vehicle investment (For me).

I agree with all points. I installed the Teraflex system (after I installed and removed the PowerStops) because I had an @$$hat pull out in front of me at highway speeds with about 4 car lengths between us. I stood on the brakes and they pushed right through. Had I not steered into the ditch I would have hit them.

I always knew the OEM brakes were $hit--especially after owning Ford trucks, but that one emergency stop convinced me to upgrade. Yes, it was expensive, but there was ZERO comparison between the Teraflex and OEM. I was able to lock the 37" tires on a 5700# Jeep that was never possible before that point.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I can’t speak to the Teraflex system, as I haven’t owned it, but I can underscore the impact of multiple pistons putting the pinch on durable, well-designed rotors. When you consider that the same jeep, with the same load, on the same tires can stop two or three jeep-lengths sooner from 60 mph, it’s a difference worth paying for — potentially a jeep-saving, or life-saving, difference.

Have you had any emergency stops in the last ten years? I have. Given that, for me, any concern about potential parts availability 100,000 miles from now takes a back seat. If the unlikely worst-case scenario is I have to find another brake system in a few years, so be it. You can’t swing a stick without hitting a wrangler these days, and new jeeps are stupid-expensive, so the stability of the aftermarket parts economy is better than it’s been in my 45+ years of jeep ownership. I’m betting Teraflex and Alcon will be here. If not, I’m confident there will be accessible solutions to a brake system failure, no matter where in the USA it may occur.

I’ve paid close attention to driving behaviors for decades. I’m convinced that people are getting dumber, more substance-impaired, more distracted, and more oblivious every year — at least in Oregon. I routinely talk to people who are 200 miles into Oregon and have no idea what the speed limit is… because they don’t bother to note all the signs posted along the highways. In the winter I routinely see people driving in the mid-80s or faster, in the fog, in the dark, after passing large, flashing, signs warning of fog freezing on the roadways — even after passing multiple crashed vehicles that are in the process of being recovered. We have over 40,000 crashes per year here. Our crash fatality rate continues to climb sharply, in spite of the fact that vehicles are the safest they have ever been. People are truly, unimaginably, stupid — and they’re just waiting for a chance to swerve into your lane or slam on the brakes in front of you. Good brakes and tires are the most important vehicle investment (For me).

On these vehicle forums, I note that many people are readily willing to spend thousands to go faster, go over larger obstacles, or even for aesthetics. But few are typically willing to spend anything on brake system improvements. When I called brake system improvements a "performance improvement" on another forum, I was ridiculed.

 

[azwjowner]

IMHO you are trying to create a solution for a problem that does not exist (totally your prerogative to do so) combined with speculation as to whether or not you would even wear out a set of rotors much less not being able to replace them. Teraflex has stated more than once the rotors are available separately as a replacement.

As for the brake pads, as I have said more than once there is NO brake pad on the planet that can compensate for the inadequate braking power of the OEM braking system--especially on a Jeep that has more weight and larger tires.

It is a fool's errand to think that it is possible...

While I have no confidence in the continued availability of single-supplier proprietary parts, he should just buy a second set of rotors now. Between two new sets of rotors, plus turning them, that's like 250,000 miles or more of braking. By that time he'll sell the Jeep. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" comes to mind. Just stick the spare rotors on a shelf and forget about them.

 

[Whaler27]

I agree with all points. I installed the Teraflex system (after I installed and removed the PowerStops) because I had an @$$hat pull out in front of me at highway speeds with about 4 car lengths between us. I stood on the brakes and they pushed right through. Had I not steered into the ditch I would have hit them.

I always knew the OEM brakes were $hit--especially after owning Ford trucks, but that one emergency stop convinced me to upgrade. Yes, it was expensive, but there was ZERO comparison between the Teraflex and OEM. I was able to lock the 37" tires on a 5700# Jeep that was never possible before that point.

Amen.

Consumer reports, which is admittedly anti-Wrangler, ranked the JL brakes “among the worst” of the vehicles tested. Generally, I heavily discount CR evaluations, but comparing brake performance is hard to screw up.)

”Among the worst” quickly turns into “terrible” when a jeep is lifted, tire size and weight are dramatically increased, and 800 pounds of aftermarket goodies are added to the jeep.

My experience was similar to yours. ABS is of no use if the brake system can’t generate sufficient clamping force to engage/cycle it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

While I have no confidence in the continued availability of single-supplier proprietary parts, he should just buy a second set of rotors now. Between two new sets of rotors, plus turning them, that's like 250,000 miles or more of braking. By that time he'll sell the Jeep. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" comes to mind. Just stick the spare rotors on a shelf and forget about them.

Agree--IMHO, it would still be cheaper than Alcon/Wilwood, etc out of the box.

 

[Whaler27]

On these vehicle forums, I note that many people are readily willing to spend thousands to go faster, go over larger obstacles, or even for aesthetics. But few are typically willing to spend anything on brake system improvements. When I called brake system improvements a "performance improvement" on another forum, I was ridiculed.

Yup. I was guilty of that when I was young and stupid-er. Three-plus decades of responding to highway-salad has improved my understanding and evolved my view. Nothing accelerates and underscores a life lesson like death and dismemberment.

 

[CarbonSteel]

On these vehicle forums, I note that many people are readily willing to spend thousands to go faster, go over larger obstacles, or even for aesthetics. But few are typically willing to spend anything on brake system improvements. When I called brake system improvements a "performance improvement" on another forum, I was ridiculed.

Which is LAF...and they would be the first one to blame everything else as the reason as to why they could not stop.

I have seen many who talk the talk but never seem to walk the walk...

 

[Willys41]

Here is another reason why I went with Treaflex delta brakes

https://alconkits.com/products/jeep...alcon-brake-pads?_pos=19&_sid=d9f0cdd2c&_ss=r

 

[roaniecowpony]

Here is another reason why I went with Treaflex delta brakes

https://alconkits.com/products/jeep...alcon-brake-pads?_pos=19&_sid=d9f0cdd2c&_ss=r

Whoa. ? That's about twice what my Camaro SS Brembo pads cost.

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