Auxiliary battery delete problems

[AndySpill]

Not sure what your point is, but thank you for co-pioneering this and providing the information to the forum.

Now if you posted a thread on the best way to search through 1000's of threads and the results didn't come up with over 25 pages, with atleast 20 threads each to wade through... that would be an accomplishment. ?

I pioneered nothing but thanks. It's at best good explanations of Jerry's hard work.

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[SargeDiesel]

I pioneered nothing but thanks. It's at best good explanations of Jerry's hard work.

Andy,

Im not sure how the post got mixed up,
But
Please see post # 64 and #69

The response you quoted was a reply to @BRuby .

There has been a lot of back-and-forth on this thread so I can see how it could be easily confused.

 

[andy29847]

Thanks for the input. I apologize for the redundancy, but I haven't quite mastered the search function on the Gladiator or Wrangler forums. ?

Sarge and others, there is a separate section in this forum just for battery talk. There are 5 threads pinned to the top of the section that you can see when you first open the section. The skinny about Jeep batteries is easily found in these pinned threads. The hard part, as illustrated in this thread, is figuring out the "right" when multiple members jump in with what they think/know/heard/experienced. I am satisfied that everyone means well, but there are a lot of things written that are not quite right.

Jerry, forum name Jebiruph, and Rhinebeck01 are excellent sources (guru status) of info about batteries and the Jeep electrical system.

 

[AndySpill]

Hey as I posted my 2018 still has perfectly fine OEM batteries - so the JL electrical system works perfectly fine for me. But the hundreds of posts of horror stories is just that. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just trying to keep things real is all.

But those that parrot whatever - without actually reading and comprehending - are simply clueless. A buffoon is a buffoon. Whatever.

Oh about starting my own thread - just pull up Jerry's - everything you need to know is right there. I only put that 2023 thing in there because that other poster neglected to read what Jerry wrote about this ages ago. Haha!

I'm not sure talking about me. If you are I've read those posts many times and did so initially the day many of them came out.

And Jerry's threads: there great but sometimes complex for the newbie. That's where I think I can play a role.

And again, if you're talking about me, how did you come to the determination that I neglected to read that which I did read. What did I say here or elsewhere (again if it's me) that conflicts with them, considering what I have to say is based on them.

Who are you referring to? What did they say that conflicted with those posts? Be a big boy. Smile icons don't cut it.

 

[SargeDiesel]

Sarge and others, there is a separate section in this forum just for battery talk. There are 5 threads pinned to the top of the section that you can see when you first open the section. The skinny about Jeep batteries is easily found in these pinned threads. The hard part, as illustrated in this thread, is that when multiple members jump in with what they think/know/heard/experienced. I am satisfied that everyone means well, but there are a lot of things written that are not quite right.

Jerry, forum name Jebiruph, and Rhinebeck01 are excellent sources (guru status) of info about batteries and the Jeep electrical system.

?? !

 

[AndySpill]

Facts -

@andy29847 has shown us above that you can go out and buy one battery with cold cranking amps that exceeds the combined cold cranking (CCA) amps of the combined main and Aux batteries--at least if that main battery is the smaller one outfitted by Stellantis in JLs without the tow package.

Heck--just for giggles let's assume that Andy's Walmart battery is terrific, and has more CCAs that even the combined CCAs for the Aux battery and larger H7 size battery outfitted by Stellantis in JLs with the tow package, even though with the H7 battery installed it in actuality doesn't.....which he fully concedes....

Here's the rub. The 2 battery setup, for all its issues that may want you to go to a single battery setup, and if you do that's fine with me--just turn ESS off please, still IMHO proves--even with that crappy Aux battery--a better setup if you want to run ESS events than the large Walmart battery alone. Of course if you want to buy Genesis Offroad's new kit that provides equal size batteries and that increases the Aux battery size, more power to you (no pun intended). Switch off which battery in this kit plays the role of main and ESS now and then...? even better.

And I feel this way because in the 2 battery design the main battery, even one with less CCAs, is preserved during ESS events to bare the majority of the responsibility for cranking the engine. Using the Walmart battery alone, especially if its not new, and you're running lots of (aftermarket) energy hungry appliances that a fair number of JL owners do, and it's a long traffic light in which your running ESS events, and maybe its cold out, your JL may early terminate that ESS event as all these appliances tax that bigger Walmart battery without the simultaneous replenishing of it from the (temporarily shut down) alternator, where that one Walmart battery, still running those aftermarket accessories must now also re-crank the engine.

To be fair, under the factory setup the main battery is reconnected to that somewhat drained Aux battery before the post ESS event crank, but I think this better than the one cranking battery being directly subjected to those energy hungry appliances that drained it during an ESS event.

I'd rather a slightly smaller but preserved main battery do the cranking in such situations, using the factory 2 battery design, over a bigger one that's just been taxed, where failure to crank could be hazardous, and for what, saving pennies in gasoline? (And I run factory with ESS engaged and am glad to save what little fuel I can.)

Now--lest someone accuse me, I don't think running ESS with one battery on the JL a huge risk: Ford does it on their Bronco--another aftermarket energy hungry appliances rich offering. I have no problem with people who run ESS stock, although I think you could benefit from trickle charging. I have no problem with people who disconnect the Aux battery--although I think they should also pull Fuse 42 or jumper N1 and N2--in fact I think, if they're committed to not running ESS events that they should disconnect the Aux battery. And I have no reason to disparage that Walmart battery in and of itself. I think Stellantis ESS system could use considerable upgrade. I could go on. But for the JL I think if you're going to run ESS events, better to go with the factory or Genesis Offroad setups, and that CCAs alone do not present the full picture.

 

[WaterfowlingUSA]

Andy, thanks for that great, detailed explanation. I have an after-market device that has permanently disabled the auto start-stop. The only after-market devices I plan on installing are a dual-band ham radio mobile and, possibly, a dash-cam only powered when the engine is running.

But, I'd like to hear a reasonable argument against permanently removing the aux battery altogether. I take meticulous care of our vehicles which includes testing the state of the battery. Not terribly concerned being stranded with a dead battery. And, if need be, I can upgrade the 'primary' battery.

What is the recommended aftermarket accessory to disable the auto start-stop? I have a new '24 ordered and do not want to deal with that.

 

[jludave]

What is the recommended aftermarket accessory to disable the auto start-stop? I have a new '24 ordered and do not want to deal with that.

SmartStopStart or a Tazer JL if you need the additional features.

https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-jl-wrangler.html

https://www.zautomotive.com/product/z_tzr_jlm/#camera-kit

 

[WaterfowlingUSA]

SmartStopStart or a Tazer JL if you need the additional features.

https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-jl-wrangler.html

https://www.zautomotive.com/product/z_tzr_jlm/#camera-kit

Thanks!

 

[andy29847]

@andy29847

I'd rather a slightly smaller but preserved main battery do the cranking in such situations, using the factory 2 battery design, over a bigger one that's just been taxed, where failure to crank could be hazardous, and for what, saving pennies in gasoline? (And I run factory with ESS engaged and am glad to save what little fuel I can.)

The main premise of your argument seems to be that cab load during a stop/start event might drain the battery to the point the truck will not start.

I've never heard of that happening, regardless of if you have one battery or 2. I believe it doesn't happen because the parameters of the jeep battery system will not allow a stop/start event if the battery(ies) are weak (mind you that all of the safeguards built in to the 2 battery system still exist when the aux battery is deleted).

 

[AndySpill]

The main premise of your argument seems to be that cab load during a stop/start event might drain the battery to the point the truck will not stop.

You mean "start" I think. If so that is harmless typo. I debate ideas, not honest mistakes.

I've never heard of that happening regardless of if you have one battery or 2. I believe it doesn't happen because the parameters of the jeep battery system will not allow a stop/start event if the battery(ies) are weak (mind you that all of the safeguards built in to the 2 battery system still exist when the aux battery is deleted).

Mind you that all the safeguards built into the 2 battery system, a.k.a. a voltage cutoff where an ESS event will early terminate if battery voltage gets too low, don't, do not still exist when the aux battery is deleted.

This is the very essence of my argument.

The two battery system may cutoff at the same voltage threshold for the JL as if there was one battery, but under the two battery system the battery responsible for the bulk of the cranking power under a 2 battery system, i.e. the main battery, is sparred during the ESS event so that it may focus its power on the crank.

Now, trying to be fair to you and facts,
* Both batteries are brought back into parallel before that post ESS event crank, and
* All the appliances that concern me, yes, have put their toll on an Aux battery during that ESS event, that now gets put back in parallel with the main battery, and
* Metaphorically, current flow between the 2 now joined batteries here is like connecting two bodies of water at different levels such that the main battery is being taxed by the engine start, the depleted aux battery and the appliances....until the engine turns over and the alternator kicks in.....

....but I still contend this 2 battery deal is enough of a safer setup, all threshold voltages being the same, than the same scenario with one battery, with even somewhat more CCAs in that one battery than the combined CCAs of the two factory batteries.

That said, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[rk911]

What is the recommended aftermarket accessory to disable the auto start-stop? I have a new '24 ordered and do not want to deal with that.

I bought the Auto Start/Stop Eliminator. So far, no problems. I have ESS OFF.

 

[andy29847]

You mean "start" I think. If so that is harmless typo. I debate ideas, not honest mistakes.


Mind you that all the safeguards built into the 2 battery system, a.k.a. a voltage cutoff where an ESS event will early terminate if battery voltage gets too low, don't, do not still exist when the aux battery is deleted.

You often disdagree without providing any reasoning. Why do you believe the above statement?

 

[AndySpill]

You often disdagree without providing any reasoning. Why do you believe the above statement?

The entire thread you took that quote from:

" Mind you that all the safeguards built into the 2 battery system, a.k.a. a voltage cutoff where an ESS event will early terminate if battery voltage gets too low, don't, do not still exist when the aux battery is deleted "

precisely after than quote, went into why I believe as such. You can agree or disagree with that logic I provide, but to say none exists in the presence of so blatantly obvious a subsequent justification on my part truly has me questioning if you're being a troll.

Really, the stuff about afterwards about sparing the main cranking battery I wrote...?

I never disagree here without expressing my opinions why.

 

[andy29847]

The entire thread you took that quote from:

" Mind you that all the safeguards built into the 2 battery system, a.k.a. a voltage cutoff where an ESS event will early terminate if battery voltage gets too low, don't, do not still exist when the aux battery is deleted "

precisely after than quote, went into why I believe as such. You can agree or disagree with that logic I provide, but to say none exists in the presence of so blatantly obvious a subsequent justification on my part truly has me questioning if you're being a troll.

Really, the stuff about afterwards about sparing the main cranking battery I wrote...?

I never disagree here without expressing my opinions why.

Sorry. I didn’t read anything I thought was logical. For example, you wrote this: “The two battery system may cutoff at the same voltage threshold for the JL as if there was one battery, but under the two battery system the battery responsible for the bulk of the cranking power under a 2 battery system, i.e. the main battery, is sparred during the ESS event so that it may focus its power on the crank.”

————

When cranking, the 2 batteries are effectively 1. If one battery is weaker than the other, the weak battery will draw power from the strong one, regardless of which battery it is. There is no focus.

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