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Aux. battery, ESS System

Heimkehr

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To keep the cost of my Genesis install down I used Group 25 Duracell's from Sam's Club
at $120 nearly 1/3 the cost of the Full River batteries.
If or when I purchase the Genesis tray/wiring kit, I had intended to purchase two matching Interstate batteries at Costco. Like you, I want to avoid the [additional] cost of the Full River batteries.

My Costco doesn't sell motorcycle [size] batteries, so I'm wondering if they would provide a core charge credit for the small factory ESS battery, insomuch that I'm purchasing a much larger battery to replace it. I might call the store to make inquiries.
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patternman

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If or when I purchase the Genesis tray/wiring kit, I had intended to purchase two matching Interstate batteries at Costco. Like you, I want to avoid the [additional] cost of the Full River batteries.

My Costco doesn't sell motorcycle [size] batteries, so I'm wondering if they would provide a core charge credit for the small factory ESS battery, insomuch that I'm purchasing a much larger battery to replace it. I might call the store to make inquiries.
I called Sam's Club and was told that the small battery was OK for a core.
When I picked up the Duracell's I asked again & was reassured, 15 days to return
the cores.
 

JEEF

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Two questions Jeff. Why not N2 to, rather than N1 or N3, just the main battery's positive terminal?





And why wouldn't you fuse that wire? Are you just not concerned that more than 30 amps or so is ever going to flow through your short 10 gauge wire?





I'm not critiquing your design Jeff--I'm just trying to understand better.


Both jumping N2-to-N1 and N3-to-N1 do the same thing because once the auxiliary battery is taken out of the the system, either physically, or electrically, all the power is coming from the main battery/alternator anyway.

Itā€™s just that in the stock setup, N3 is what feeds the auxiliary battery which in turn, connects to and feeds N1. Jumping from N3 directly to N1 is basically whats happening in the stock setup, but stock it has a relay and the aux battery between them and this way is truly bypassing them.

Fusing the jumper is not necessary because youā€™re bypassing all of the wiring that went to the relay and auxiliary battery. N3 comes right off itā€™s own dedicated 150A fuse that was there to protect that wiring which is now not connected to anything, or in my case physically removed. Jumping N3 to N1 is still retaining the 150A fuse. Putting a fused Jumper would be redundant by putting another (probably lower capacity) fuse in line with the existing 150A fuse. The 150A fuse that is there is probably not even necessary now because N1 is feeding accessories that have there own fused circuits.

The only difference between jumping N2-to-N1 and N3-to-N1 is that the latter is powering N1 through the original 150A fuse that it was going through stock.

Jumping N2 to N1 is feeding N1 directly from the main battery and it wasnā€™t that way from the factory, but doing it this was will work perfectly fine and is almost exactly the same. Some are suggesting taking the Aux battery + cable and connecting it to the main battery + and this works too. Itā€™s the same as Jumping N2 to N1, but the power is going through more cabling and more cabling has more chance of getting damaged and shorted, but no more than it was stock because all of that cabling was there stock to begin with. So this way is fine too as long as the cable is rerouted safely. Itā€™s basically rerouting whatā€™s already there instead of making a jumper. Affectively using the original aux + cable as a big unfused jumper. If anything, this setup is less protected than how I have mine setup.

There are many different ways to accomplish the same thing. Hooking this to that, or jumping this to that is doing the same thing, itā€™s just pulling the power from a different point in the same system.

I did it the way I did because my goal was to clean it up as much as possible. I removed a LOT of cabling and clutter. I unwrapped the harnesses and removed everything I could including the cabling that goes down to the relay and all of the cables for the aux battery and then re-wrapped what was left. It looks super clean, not that you even see it. The Jeep doesnā€™t even know itā€™s not there. I left the relay itself in place and itā€™s still hooked up to the control wires, there just arenā€™t any battery cables hooked to it.

Hope this helps and I hope my explanation wasnā€™t too confusing. I learned all of this from the post started by @Jebiruph and I canā€™t thank him enough for the work that he did in that thread and everyone else for that matter. Getting rid of that aux battery mess really helped with the suspension project Iā€™m working on. I did a ton of research on this before I implemented it and I think it was the best way and it worked great.

This diagram by @Jebiruph shows how the stock setup is, so maybe you can see what I confusingly tried to describe. Haha

-Jeff

Jeep Wrangler JL Aux. battery, ESS System 36L dual batteries



And here's a picture of the mess that I removed:

Jeep Wrangler JL Aux. battery, ESS System IMG_0951
 

Genesis Offroad

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Lots of good summary info in here, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge, Tommywear!

Just a quick note about the warranty question. We cannot speak for your local dealership's policies, but I can at least tell you that in 10 years of making our dual battery systems, we have not had a single customer call us to report any cases of a dealership denying a warranty claim simply due to having our dual battery kit installed.

As mentioned before, a dealer has to prove that the modification caused the problem. Essentially all we are doing is giving you additional battery capacity (with some additional bells and whistles). Yes, we move the positive wire from the small aux battery up to the positive post of the main cranking battery, but that by itself will not cause any problems that can lead to a warranty claim.

It is still possible to have an improper installation that leads to a problem, such as a pinched wire, allowing a wire to be too close to the exhaust, or whatever, but the same thing could be said for any other type of modification as well.

My point here is don't let worries about your warranty stop you from using the benefits that our dual battery system provides.

Oh, and we have kits in stock and ship same day!
-Shane
 

JEEF

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If Iā€™m eliminating the aux battery and cables would you recommend I take it out through the top or bottom?

If I were going to remove the cabling, I would do it from the top because that's where most of it is. The cables that are hooked to the relay might need to have the fender liner removed to get to it. I'm not sure if it can be accessed by reaching behind the liner or not. It's hard for me to say because I did it a while back and I had it all removed top and bottom.

-Jeff
Lots of good summary info in here, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge, Tommywear!

Just a quick note about the warranty question. We cannot speak for your local dealership's policies, but I can at least tell you that in 10 years of making our dual battery systems, we have not had a single customer call us to report any cases of a dealership denying a warranty claim simply due to having our dual battery kit installed.

As mentioned before, a dealer has to prove that the modification caused the problem. Essentially all we are doing is giving you additional battery capacity (with some additional bells and whistles). Yes, we move the positive wire from the small aux battery up to the positive post of the main cranking battery, but that by itself will not cause any problems that can lead to a warranty claim.

It is still possible to have an improper installation that leads to a problem, such as a pinched wire, allowing a wire to be too close to the exhaust, or whatever, but the same thing could be said for any other type of modification as well.

My point here is don't let worries about your warranty stop you from using the benefits that our dual battery system provides.

Oh, and we have kits in stock and ship same day!
-Shane

That is another benefit of the Genesis system. It's a tried and true product.

The dealership would look more favorably upon a guy having something like their product installed than a guy that just decided to start ripping stuff out of his Jeep because he read a post where a guy on the internet did it to his Jeep. LOL
 

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Genesis Offroad

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That is another benefit of the Genesis system. It's a tried and true product.

The dealership would look more favorably upon a guy having something like their product installed than a guy that just decided to start ripping stuff out of his Jeep because he read a post where a guy on the internet did it to his Jeep. LOL

Well there's a good point too! :like: I actually worked very closely with Jeep when designing our system to make sure I wasn't going to screw something up!
 

Jebiruph

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The fuses, whether it's the N3 fuse or the N1 to N2 jumper fuse, protect against shorting out the aux battery to ground. If the aux battery is physically removed, a fuse is not needed. This is the case with the etorque systems that don't have the aux battery, the main battery is wired directly to N1 unfused.

@JEEF is right that about a jumper from N1 to N3 not needing it's own fuse as N3 still protects the aux battery from shorting out. An unfused jumper from N1 to N3 does not increase the risk of blowing the N3 fuse either. But a jumper from N1 to N3 does not help when you get stranded with a blown N3 fuse like an N1 to N2 or N1 to main battery jumper does.

The good news is that now we know you get one free life (fuse wise) with the N4 fuse. N4 seems to be a mostly unused 150A fuse, so in a situation with an N1 to N3 jumper and a blown N3 fuse, moving the jumper to N4 gets you back on a good fuse. Even on an unjumpered system with a blown N3 fuse, moving the wire connected to N3 to N4 can get you back on the road.

Edit: Since the N3 fuse is 150A, a jumper from N1 to N3 should either be able to handle 150A or have it's own fuse rated for the capacity of the wire.
 
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No IFS

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Sorry if this is a stupid question but how are we replacing those big battery cables with the small jumper?. If we run a jumper from N1 to N3 say 8 / 10 gauge wire does power go through there the same as the battery cable?
 

dchemphill1

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Had my small battery replaced under warranty yesterday. Test main battery and it was good. Start stop had not worked for about a month.
 

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Jebiruph

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Sorry if this is a stupid question but how are we replacing those big battery cables with the small jumper?. If we run a jumper from N1 to N3 say 8 / 10 gauge wire does power go through there the same as the battery cable?
When installing the jumper as suggested, it works in parallel with the big battery cables and does not replace them. With the jumper installed and the only other modification being disconnecting the aux battery ground cable, the factory battery cables from the main battery positive to N3 (through N3 fuse) to the power control relay to the aux battery positive to N1 are still in place. So the power is split between the jumper and the existing battery cables.

Circumstances that cause the jumper to carry the full load are during the cold start aux battery test and when the N3 fuse is blown. The aux battery test doesn't use enough power to be a problem, but when running with a blown N3 fuse, interior accessories like the heater blower, audio system, USB ports, etc, could combine to over power the jumper.

Jeep Wrangler JL Aux. battery, ESS System 1642128098845
 

txj2go

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A key part of the issue is that the OE batteries are notoriously shitty. Last summer I had to replace both with a pair of Oā€™Reileyā€™s Super Start batteries; they get good reviews.
It is hard to get good batteries these days.
I've read that AGM batteries should last up to twice as long as flooded batteries, and most flooded batteries I've owned have lasted around 35 months. But I read about a lot of JL owners that have already had to replace their batteries. I was starting some remote trails in my 2018 so I decided to put in a new battery. When I took out the old battery I discovered that my 3 year old Jeep had a 2 year old battery in it. So the previous owner apparently had the battery replaced after 1 year.
 

Jebiruph

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The fuses, whether it's the N3 fuse or the N1 to N2 jumper fuse, protect against shorting out the aux battery to ground. If the aux battery is physically removed, a fuse is not needed. This is the case with the etorque systems that don't have the aux battery, the main battery is wired directly to N1 unfused.
Jerry:

Given the amount of current some of the high amp fuses mentioned can potentially carry, and given that we are hooking up 10 or 8 gauge wire to them to make jumpers, albeit in fairness to your point, very short distances, aren't the fuses that in are in line with that 10/8 gauge wire, deemed here to be unnecessary, protecting that 10/8 gauge wire from melting and/or fire?

Thanks.
I probably could have worded that better. Some have suggested running an unfused jumper. I've always argued against that because if the main battery positive cable gets shorted to ground, that unfused jumper creates an unfused short from the aux battery positive to ground.

To your point, you could still exceed the capacity of the jumper through normal use in some circumstances. But there isn't any reason for a 10 or 8 gauge jumper when the aux battery is removed, just run an unfused battery cable from the main battery to N1 like the etorque system uses.
 

Jebiruph

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Jerry:

Given the amount of current some of the high amp fuses mentioned can potentially carry, and given that we are hooking up 10 or 8 gauge wire to them to make jumpers, albeit in fairness to your point, very short distances, aren't the fuses that in are in line with that 10/8 gauge wire, deemed here to be unnecessary, protecting that 10/8 gauge wire from melting and/or fire?

Thanks.
Actually now thinking about this, I have to refine my statement about an N1 to N3 jumper not needing it's own fuse since it's protected by the N3 fuse. The N3 fuse is 150A, so if your N1 to N3 jumper isn't rated for 150A, it should have it's own fuse rated for the capacity of the wire.
 

No IFS

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Thank you for all the information everyone.
For me Iā€™m removing the aux battery. Disconnecting aux battery negative cable. Aux positive to main battery positive. Using all the original cables designed for power handling. could return it back to stock if I have to. Simple and effective
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