Are CB Radios just for cool factor?

[Niteshooter]

10 miles with a CB....No way, if it is a legal setup and an antenna shorter than 10 feet. Certainly not on a Jeep, which is the furthest from ideal one can get.

You can get a 10 foot CB antenna! Woah that would be pretty radical on a Jeep..... oh wait....

http://www.4x4central.com/radio.html
Randy Simons, N0LRJ's Radio Active Samurai

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[DanW]

Just a note, when considering CB range, a one time situation of perfect atmospheric conditions and positioning of radios, along with planets aligning and being in a post-meditation euphoria does NOT translate into practical use. In practical use, consistently getting 10 miles from Jeep to Jeep with a CB is not realistic. Most of the time, 2 miles will be unrealistic, when on the trail. I've been on trail runs where it is common that the lead Jeep with a CB cannot be heard by the last Jeep in the group, which means consistently, I can't expect at any given moment, to get much past 1/2 mile in normal trail conditions with elevation changes and obstructions.

 

[Niteshooter]

Just a note, when considering CB range, a one time situation of perfect atmospheric conditions and positioning of radios, along with planets aligning and being in a post-meditation euphoria does NOT translate into practical use. In practical use, consistently getting 10 miles from Jeep to Jeep with a CB is not realistic. Most of the time, 2 miles will be unrealistic, when on the trail. I've been on trail runs where it is common that the lead Jeep with a CB cannot be heard by the last Jeep in the group, which means consistently, I can't expect at any given moment, to get much past 1/2 mile in normal trail conditions with elevation changes and obstructions.

And GMRS/FRS is going to be better? Also what type of antenna and where is this antenna located on the lead Jeep? For example if it's on the back rear right corner the radiating pattern of the antenna depending on type will be towards front left.... also was lead Jeep running a stock microphone? Was the tail Jeep running a stock radio with built in speaker? What was the volume of the radio set to and did the S/RF meter read in other words was lead Jeep under modulated for signal. A decent power mic may solve this issue and/or external speaker on the tail Jeep or any of the others in the group since built in speakers in CB radios are notoriously poor in audio output and quality. Also what was the match of the radio/antenna if buddy has a bad match or bad mounting location then his ability to transmit effectively will be greatly diminished, as well as type of antenna, eg 1/4 wave or coil loaded 1/2 or 5/8 wave. But 1/2 mile range is abnormally low so I would be looking into the setup(s) as well as possibly having a good radio shop check the radio itself for alignment.

Alignment of planets has no appreciable effect on radio range, nor lunar position. Sunspot activity yes... I typically don't meditate before/during/or after comms though back in the 70's it was probably more useful after an evening ratchet jawing.... Although being psychic is of great benefit.

 

[DanW]

And GMRS/FRS is going to be better? Also what type of antenna and where is this antenna located on the lead Jeep? For example if it's on the back rear right corner the radiating pattern of the antenna depending on type will be towards front left.... also was lead Jeep running a stock microphone? Was the tail Jeep running a stock radio with built in speaker? What was the volume of the radio set to and did the S/RF meter read in other words was lead Jeep under modulated for signal. A decent power mic may solve this issue and/or external speaker on the tail Jeep or any of the others in the group since built in speakers in CB radios are notoriously poor in audio output and quality. Also what was the match of the radio/antenna if buddy has a bad match or bad mounting location then his ability to transmit effectively will be greatly diminished, as well as type of antenna, eg 1/4 wave or coil loaded 1/2 or 5/8 wave. But 1/2 mile range is abnormally low so I would be looking into the setup(s) as well as possibly having a good radio shop check the radio itself for alignment.

Alignment of planets has no appreciable effect on radio range, nor lunar position. Sunspot activity yes... I typically don't meditate before/during/or after comms though back in the 70's it was probably more useful after an evening ratchet jawing.... Although being psychic is of great benefit.

Yes, GMRS is consistently better. Under trail conditions, Jeep to Jeep, with two 15 watt radios, which is almost 4x as much power as a CB, I've been able to get 7 miles of clear communication. That's through trees, houses (neighborhoods) and through rolling hills. Under exactly the same conditions, Jeep to Jeep, I attained 3/4 mile and it was not clear. In addition, one of the 15w GMRS radios had a 6" magnetic antenna. The other had about a 2.5' magnetic antenna. Both Jeeps have since received much better antenna setups. The CB's were a Uniden all in hand unit with a 4' Firestick on a Cooltech mount, while the other Jeep had a full sized Uniden CB with a 4' Wilson Antenna on a Cooltech mount. The GMRS radios were Midland Microtalk radios, including an MXT275 and an MXT115. The CB's were tuned for SWR by a pro CB shop.

You are making my point about there being no good place to mount a CB on a Jeep. That's exactly what I've been saying all along, and it contributes to crappy range, even when SWR has been tuned. The GMRS has had no tuning of any kind.

 

[Niteshooter]

Yes, GMRS is consistently better. Under trail conditions, Jeep to Jeep, with two 15 watt radios, which is almost 4x as much power as a CB, I've been able to get 7 miles of clear communication. That's through trees, houses (neighborhoods) and through rolling hills. Under exactly the same conditions, Jeep to Jeep, I attained 3/4 mile and it was not clear. In addition, one of the 15w GMRS radios had a 6" magnetic antenna. The other had about a 2.5' magnetic antenna. Both Jeeps have since received much better antenna setups. The CB's were a Uniden all in hand unit with a 4' Firestick on a Cooltech mount, while the other Jeep had a full sized Uniden CB with a 4' Wilson Antenna on a Cooltech mount. The GMRS radios were Midland Microtalk radios, including an MXT275 and an MXT115. The CB's were tuned for SWR by a pro CB shop.

You are making my point about there being no good place to mount a CB on a Jeep. That's exactly what I've been saying all along, and it contributes to crappy range, even when SWR has been tuned. The GMRS has had no tuning of any kind.

Ok, yes if we are talking about the non handheld 'commercial' grade GMRS radios then they should be better. But I suspect most folks will think of the handheld blister pack radios that one finds in a Walmart or sporting goods store. Those would not be better.

15w eh, those radios are illegal up here in Canada as we are limited to radios with 2w output. I googled up 15w GMRS and found this, Midland MXT115 MicroMobile GMRS/FRS 2 Way Radio. Are these the radios? If so, those things are pretty cool if as they state they have built in repeaters. In other words put one in the middle of your group as a repeater and that should give some pretty decent coverage from front to back of the convoy. Granted the price is certainly inline with commercial/amateur grade gear. But again up here illegal to operate. Downside is the magnet mount antenna, are these things hard wired like the consumer grade radios from places like Radio Shack? If not then swapping in a decent UHF antenna might make quite a difference unless FCC has regs which forbid that modification. But there are a number of really good high quality UHF antennas on the market, I ran Larsen UHF and VHF antennas on the Explorer. On the consumer handhelds it is illegal to change or modify the fixed antenna on those units.

Back to CB, I have a Uniden hand held in one of our cars. I've had to repair it a number of times as the volume control is junk. Oh wait a sec, the one big issue with the Uniden was that it's volume control carbons up easily and that reduces the volume coming out of the speaker or it cuts out completely. I've also had to re-soldier the wiring to this part a couple of times as these broke. Last repair was a month ago, had to pull it apart again, take the dial portion of the volume control off and spray the internals with Deoxit, this fixed the poor volume and crackling that it has always suffered from. When I first got it I also gave it a full alignment as it was not putting out the full 4w legal output (it was 2w on the bench) and modulation was sub par (on the scope). Modulation has never been great with that radio but it's used mainly for monitoring CB channel 19 and weather, I would not recommend this radio unless you absolutely had to have a one hander CB. In the Jeep I run a Uniden AM/SSB radio with Astatic D104M microphone and that radio is far superior to the little hand held both on transmit and receive, it too received a full alignment to legal specs.

I looked up the Cooltech mount and the first thing that struck me is that it wasn't grounded very well and I also wondered about match due to the radiating part of the antenna touching/running through the plastic license plate mount (if the license plate bracket is metal impregnated) plastic that is going to have a real adverse affect on SWR..... I've run Firesticks and they were good antennas for a top loaded fibreglass whip, Wilson make good antennas as well, though is this the one with tuneable tip and grounding lug? But both of these antennas will be hampered by the location of the antenna mount as they will probably just clear the top of the Jeep. My other concern would be the close proximity to the body tub as that will affect performance of the antenna as well as SWR. Personally I would not use that style of mount, even though it is convenient. I used to run a Hustler 'beer can' antenna on a custom mount on my tire carrier, this got the antenna up higher clearing most of the body tub and allowed the main portion of the antenna's radiator to sit above the top of the Jeep. I'm currently running a Predator 10K after the Hustler was stolen, not really for performance but because it looked interesting and was easily tuned.

Oh and if you think figuring out where to mount an antenna on a Jeep is a PITA try mounting one on a smart Fortwo! Especially if you are thinking of running VHF/UHF/HF, granted the solution is an all in one radio such as the Yaesu or TYT and a single tri-band antenna but still since the body is plastic and tiny there are very few ways to mount an antenna with a decent ground plane, er well actually one place and that is through the tow hook mount in the rear bumper and a custom fabricated metal bracket.

 

[DanW]

The Cooltech on the JK has a metal mount under the license plate frame that fastens to the body. The JL version has a stainless frame that is fastened to the tailgate with stainless bolts. It seems to be grounded as well as you can get on a Jeep. If you wanted extra assurance, one could attach a grounding cable.

The Midland Microtalk MXT275 GMRS radio on my JL now has a much better antenna and mount, pictured below. The JK will get a fender mount with a 6db Midland antenna, so the range will only get better with these. I was surprised with the little tiny magnetic antenna how far it reached. With the new setup on the JL, I was picking up handheld GMRS transmissions at 10 miles, with clarity. They were likely commercial handhelds, as they were people organizing a 10k run in downtown Indianapolis. I was conservatively 10 miles away when I heard them. Maybe 12 or 13. Anyway, I don't know how much power those handhelds had. There is a Midland with 40 watts available, too.

I'm not sure how repeaters work, but yes, they do have the capability to use them and extend range, if available.

 

[DanW]

 

[Niteshooter]

Ok, thanks for the info on the Cooltech, mounting up higher on the tailgate is much better. Btw any amateur radio shop will probably carry a pretty good selection of mobile mounts and antennas though what you are running looks good. My concern was that the Cooltech license plate bracket allowed the radiating part of the antenna (whip) to touch the plastic portion of the license plate bracket. In the wet I would have suspected it could cause some issues plus being close to body tub. But on the tailgate up higher would be a lot better.

With all the electronic things going on under the hood I wonder if our higher power UHF/VHF radios might cause some issues if the antenna(s) are mounted up front. I can't say I've ever read anything about this but just thinking out loud....

Did dig up the manual for the Midland, I had mistakenly thought it had a built in repeater. It only has the ability to transmit on set frequencies that are designated for repeater operation. In other words it's transmit/receive offsets are preset at the factory (Think) but you would still have to have permission/access from a repeater site owner to use the repeater. Still it's pretty cool and being a one hander would make figuring out where to put something a lot simpler.

What a repeater is is a radio station that receives on a preset frequency and retransmits the incoming transmission on a slightly different frequency typically at a higher output power though that depends on the site. Commercial radio systems tend to use this type of system as do police/fire/ems and amateur radio operators. In the days before cell phones one way of having mobile telephone access was to have your ham ticket, join a club and access their repeater site which typically had an auto patch which tapped into the local phone line. Downside was only one operator could use this at a time but for a quick call it was handy. Other advantage with repeaters is that they can increase signal range between units.

Those high power GMRS radios little brothers to what are available to amateur radio operators on the 70 cm band. I checked in the States the test for your Tech class license is $15 plus cost of the study materials...... hint hint....

This might help those reading this and wondering what the heck I'm on about...

https://theprepared.com/survival-skills/guides/beginners-guide-amateur-ham-radio-preppers/

 

[jawest12]

The Cooltech on the JK has a metal mount under the license plate frame that fastens to the body. The JL version has a stainless frame that is fastened to the tailgate with stainless bolts. It seems to be grounded as well as you can get on a Jeep. If you wanted extra assurance, one could attach a grounding cable.

The Midland Microtalk MXT275 GMRS radio on my JL now has a much better antenna and mount, pictured below. The JK will get a fender mount with a 6db Midland antenna, so the range will only get better with these. I was surprised with the little tiny magnetic antenna how far it reached. With the new setup on the JL, I was picking up handheld GMRS transmissions at 10 miles, with clarity. They were likely commercial handhelds, as they were people organizing a 10k run in downtown Indianapolis. I was conservatively 10 miles away when I heard them. Maybe 12 or 13. Anyway, I don't know how much power those handhelds had. There is a Midland with 40 watts available, too.

I'm not sure how repeaters work, but yes, they do have the capability to use them and extend range, if available.

Which antenna lip mount is that?

 

[millerjl]

There is another thread asking this question but it isn't getting any replies, so I will ask here. You all have a lot of CB knowledge.

Can I just buy a CB/am-fm antenna that replaces the stock antenna, get a "splitter" or "modulator" can;t remember what it was called, to split the am/fm to the radio and the CB to the CB and then only need a really short cable for that?

 

[DanW]

Which antenna lip mount is that?

It is made by Comet and I bought it at theantennafarm.com. I can't remember the model, but it has an NMO antenna mount. I'm using it with a Midland MXT 275 micromobile 15w radio.

Btw, my Uniden CMX760 and Cooltech mount with 4' antenna is working beautifully on the Moab trip, so far. I'm not sure about overall range, but within its range, communication is very clear and I'm told by others that its transmission is very good. I'll stretch it out a little tomorrow to see how far it can reach on the highway. I'm guessing I'm seeing more than a mile. I'm rather pleased with it.

 

[bryan]

Can I just buy a CB/am-fm antenna that replaces the stock antenna, get a "splitter" or "modulator" can;t remember what it was called, to split the am/fm to the radio and the CB to the CB and then only need a really short cable for that?

Yes, you can buy one, but you may not like it. On the upside, it will look nice. You replace your current AM/FM antenna with a mounting base that is compatible wit most CB antennas, then install a splitter in your vehicle. Plug-and-play kits are available from various retailers. Add your favorite CB antenna, tune, and you're done. On the downside filters reduce your signal strength, and CB antennas won't give you very good AM/FM reception (look up "resonance" if you want to learn why). I believe some users have reported difficulty tuning their antennas for low SWR, which will also affect your performance, but I don't have any experience with these devices. If your CB use cases are focused on talking to someone you can see (that's hyperbole--kind of) and you don't care about reduced AM/FM reception (stubby antennas are popular, after all), you may like it--many do.

 

[millerjl]

Yes, you can buy one, but you may not like it. On the upside, it will look nice. You replace your current AM/FM antenna with a mounting base that is compatible wit most CB antennas, then install a splitter in your vehicle. Plug-and-play kits are available from various retailers. Add your favorite CB antenna, tune, and you're done. On the downside filters reduce your signal strength, and CB antennas won't give you very good AM/FM reception (look up "resonance" if you want to learn why). I believe some users have reported difficulty tuning their antennas for low SWR, which will also affect your performance, but I don't have any experienced with these devices. If your CB use cases are focused on talking to someone you can see (that's hyperbole--kind of) and you don't care about reduced AM/FM reception (stubby antennas are popular, after all), you may like it--many do.

Thanks for the info. I was looking into this mainly due to the height of the antennas off the back. I know I can do a quick disco but if I wanted to leave it on all the time, the parking structure where I work is 7’. A 3’ fire stick is going to be tight. I also wondered if a 2’ or 3’ in place of the current antenna would have better range since there is less of it being blocked by the Jeep?

 

[TIDALWAVE]

I use this one that works without batteries:

I have a similar 'weather rock'.

 

[Niteshooter]

There is another thread asking this question but it isn't getting any replies, so I will ask here. You all have a lot of CB knowledge.

Can I just buy a CB/am-fm antenna that replaces the stock antenna, get a "splitter" or "modulator" can;t remember what it was called, to split the am/fm to the radio and the CB to the CB and then only need a really short cable for that?

Like this one?

Looks like they've come a long way from back in the heyday of CB when we had an inline splitter which was just a pair of trimmer capacitors but would be interesting to see what exactly is going on inside that splitter box and if it's just a fancy looking box covering the old school trimmers. Downside of those old one's was that the cable used was just stock AM/FM coax and not RG58/8 so your outgoing signal wasn't the greatest and the 'matching box' just lied to the radio in terms of SWR. It looks like that Rugged Ridge one might actually be different in that is uses proper coax throughout so it might be better.

These antennas can work ok in a pinch when you don't want a lot of antennas/holes in your vehicle but typically there are some trade offs and if you are thinking of running higher than legal output power from your CB it's possible/likely you are going to damage the radio since I suspect these all in one's aren't designed to handle higher power. Perhaps even SSB might be too much and the only way to discover this is when you burn out your final transistors in your radio. The other thing I notice is the connector on the outside, a potential weak spot if you live in an area where salt is used on the roads as the connector will eventually rust out and could raise the SWR of the system to the point of damaging the radio.

On all my installations I use a form of rubberized tape, not electrical tape, it's more pliable like plasticine that I wrap a connector with. https://www.commscope.com/catalog/doc/pdf/2004/Weatherproofing_Kit_for_Connectors_and_Antennas.pdf

That prevents salt water intrusion into the connector and a source of failure in the future.

Parking structures can be a problem for tall antennas, personally I just unscrew mine in that situation and toss it inside the Jeep, but then I've also had antennas stolen so in some instances it might actually be better to just do that in the long run....

I don't use a quick disconnect, mainly because it allows a thief even quicker access to my antenna. But that might just be life in a big city vs being out in the country where stuff doesn't get stolen as often. Also wonder how well those things hold up to salt/corrosion.

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