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Another 3.6 thread… bulletproofing?

Odyssey USA

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How many miles are already on it? Know its maintenance history?

The only thing I'd add is a theory behind the blown head gaskets is the bolts are under-torqued from the factory. You might want to check those.
Yes it could be improper assembly issues at the engine plant or a metallurgical issue with the bolts and they continue to yield with heat cycles/expansion & contraction.
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ajbarbier

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Yes it could be improper assembly issues at the engine plant or a metallurgical issue with the bolts and they continue to yield with heat cycles/expansion & contraction.
This one makes me sh!t my pants a little as a previous Subaru owner
 

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You do you, but I don't think it's a good idea to retorque Torque to Yield head bolts.
Correct. It’ll just continue to yield and eventually will give way if you go too far.
 

Odyssey USA

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There’s a lot of great points here.

Mine…was either assembly or the bolts were poor quality. Some can make it through as I suspect they only test the occasional batch. I thought I found 4 but looking back at my video captured in editing, there were actually 5 loose head bolts. 2 at the top of cylinder 3 where the head gasket failed and 3! on the left bank where things were still sealing. The 2 were OBVIOUSLY loose. The other 3 still made the lesser snap sound breaking them loose but were looser than any of the other problem free bolts. This was with NO overheating. Mostly hwy miles with 109k miles in 4.5 years. Coolant drain and fill twice around 100k miles. Plugs and oil cooler was done around 96k miles iirc.

Prior to the head gasket, passenger intake cam was wiped. Heard the noise, 2-300 miles later, pulled a misfire code. Replaced all cams, lifters, all of it. My wife was in sales and we generally changed oil every 5k but sometimes it was closer to 7k.

The updated cams are in and as far as the head/head gaskets…P1 Manufacturing USA made head studs are going in. My new heads just got dropped off today at BES Racing Engines in southern Indiana. (Bischoff Engine Service) We ran into surface finish and flatness issues with the new heads so they’ll take care of it. I opted to drive the two hours to take it to them. Why the trust? Well between the early 2000s to 2017 BES won the Engine Masters series that was in Popular Hot Rodding and, later, Hot Rod Magazine multiple times. It’s not a race engine but I need the cleanup pass done once and right the first time and I know they will have top notch/maintained equipment if anybody would. Low RA for MLS gaskets and FLAT. Said they’d check my valve seal too while it’s there. Quoted $85/head…yes please.

If you want to follow along and catch the video that will eventually come out, click the subscribe link in my sig.
 

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This one makes me sh!t my pants a little as a previous Subaru owner
I know I initially brought this up, but the 3.6L blown head gaskets are something that is in all honest probably overblown (no pun intended). You typically hear about the failures not the successes. There are millions of 3.6 PUGs out there and only a small percent have experienced blown head gaskets—at least as the leading cause of failure. It's common enough that it is discussed because even a small percent of millions is thousands to tens of thousands. I only brought it up in the context of bulletproofing, but after looking it up, it isn't a feasible preventative measure.
 

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Odyssey USA

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I know I initially brought this up, but the 3.6L blown head gaskets are something that is in all honest probably overblown (no pun intended). You typically hear about the failures not the successes. There are millions of 3.6 PUGs out there and only a small percent have experienced blown head gaskets—at least as the leading cause of failure. It's common enough that it is discussed because even a small percent of millions is thousands to tens of thousands. I only brought it up in the context of bulletproofing, but after looking it up, it isn't a feasible preventative measure.
I’ll say…when I had the cams swapped, THAT would’ve been a good time to go with studs. I wish I knew the future back in May ‘25 because by October, POOF goes cyl 3.
 
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ajbarbier

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I’ll say…when I had the cams swapped, THAT would’ve been a good time to go with studs. I wish I knew the future back in May ‘25 because by October, POOF goes cyl 3.
Realistically, how tough is the cam/rocker/lifter procedure? I’ve done timing belts on Subarus and stuff like that- but is it doable? That’ll help quell the anxious thoughts.
 

Odyssey USA

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Realistically, how tough is the cam/rocker/lifter procedure? I’ve done timing belts on Subarus and stuff like that- but is it doable? That’ll help quell the anxious thoughts.
If you can follow the service manual and have the tools, totally doable. You also have the community support for questions the manual may skim over. I use AlldataDIY. Was $20 for a month not long ago. I paid a little over $100 for 3 years last year. They have specials often.
 

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You do you, but I don't think it's a good idea to retorque Torque to Yield head bolts.
Well, if they were never torqued to yield initially, then tightening them to the proper torque is better than just hoping for the best.
 

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How many miles are already on it? Know its maintenance history?

The only thing I'd add is a theory behind the blown head gaskets is the bolts are under-torqued from the factory. You might want to check those.
How, they have torque to yield head bolts, big no no…
As mentioned, turn off that bugger Auto Start.
 

Odyssey USA

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Well, if they were never torqued to yield initially, then tightening them to the proper torque is better than just hoping for the best.
I’m doubtful one would be lucky enough that one loose head bolt would be the last one in the torque sequence. Normally, in an engine that hasn’t been run since the gasket was replaced, if you skip one in the sequence, you have to start all over.

By the time you’re that far in it’s better just to keep going and remove the head, replace the gasket, and start over with new bolts or studs.

These blocks are aluminum, obviously, and even the service manual has a different torque process for used blocks. I don’t know but how many times does this block like bolt threads grinding away threads? That’s what I picture in my mind. Definitely don’t remove them with an impact. Those threads will come right out with the bolt and the aluminum still stuck in the bolt threads.
 
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ajbarbier

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Not to thread jack myself here- but could someone link me to the correct oil cooler? Some people say Dorman aluminum, some people say OEM. what’s the definitive best one?
 

eastern

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Not to thread jack myself here- but could someone link me to the correct oil cooler? Some people say Dorman aluminum, some people say OEM. what’s the definitive best one?
People say this, people say that.. Did you bother to find out for yourself?
What do you mean the best? Doorman dweeb with marketing degree says that aluminum holds superiority over oem plastic fantastic.
Doorman is aluminum replica of the original problematic design. So what say you, is it the metal vs plastic problem, or old vs new seal problem ?
 
 







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