4xE Order Status??

KarlN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Karl
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
127
Reaction score
130
Location
Sparks, NV.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited 4XE
Occupation
Real estate Broker
So they build us up on hype, not reality.. get us hooked and lock us in on orders with those specs even though they reserve the right to change. Then they let us down with reducing the specs across the board in reality by putting a smaller KWh battery in AFTER many builds are already in storage!!...they had to know about it weeks/months ago then didn't they? The trucks were being built out of the advertised specs on the production line.

Delayed media deception to strategically gain market share and profit margins perhaps?

It sounds like a bait, switch and cash in on us like we are needy suckers or something to me!

A total lack of transparency, Terrible communication and customer relations at a corporate level.

I may not pick mine up out of principal but I do like my dealer so now what??
Advertisement

 

KarlN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Karl
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
127
Reaction score
130
Location
Sparks, NV.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited 4XE
Occupation
Real estate Broker
This is killing all of the joy:(
 

cutandrun

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
78
Reaction score
122
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
Porsche 911 turbo, Mercedes G550, Rubicon 4xe
This is killing all of the joy:(
As best as I can tell, we do not have any definitive information. You may be getting upset for no reason. I would like Jeep to stick to the original figures too, but at the end of the day, I can walk away if I don’t like the final numbers. That’s highly unlikely. There’s nothing I see competitive with the 4xe. 😊
 

KarlN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Karl
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
127
Reaction score
130
Location
Sparks, NV.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited 4XE
Occupation
Real estate Broker
As best as I can tell, we do not have any definitive information. You may be getting upset for no reason. I would like Jeep to stick to the original figures too, but at the end of the day, I can walk away if I don’t like the final numbers. That’s highly unlikely. There’s nothing I see competitive with the 4xe. 😊
Agreed, I just looked at a Bronco but I may have ordered a diesel Wrangler instead...
 

Jamie Brown

Active Member
First Name
Jamie Brown
Joined
Jan 31, 2021
Messages
43
Reaction score
36
Location
Blythewood SC
Vehicle(s)
GMC 3500AT4, Nissan Leaf, RAM 4500
Might be a smaller battery and maybe a little less hp but I don't care. I bought mine for the looks and the tax credits. About 95% of the time I drive it the gas engine will be coming on so oh well, I don't mind one but.
 

Maller

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
112
Location
CT
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLU Mojito!
So they build us up on hype, not reality.. get us hooked and lock us in on orders with those specs even though they reserve the right to change. Then they let us down with reducing the specs across the board in reality by putting a smaller KWh battery in AFTER many builds are already in storage!!...they had to know about it weeks/months ago then didn't they? The trucks were being built out of the advertised specs on the production line.

Delayed media deception to strategically gain market share and profit margins perhaps?

It sounds like a bait, switch and cash in on us like we are needy suckers or something to me!

A total lack of transparency, Terrible communication and customer relations at a corporate level.

I may not pick mine up out of principal but I do like my dealer so now what??

It seems fitting your screen name looks like Karen.
 

GeneralKlinger

Active Member
First Name
BJ
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
11
Location
Spokane Valley, WA
Vehicle(s)
2020 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE
Alot of entitled folks kicking around these forums. Jeep owes you nothing. If you are going to complain about the EV range, try buying ANY other EV. None of them get what they say. Some are slighly higher, some are slightly lower. Hell my 2020 Rav4 Hybrid gets 44mpg in the summer and low 30's in the winter. I am not crying at Toyota.
 

KarlN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Karl
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
127
Reaction score
130
Location
Sparks, NV.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited 4XE
Occupation
Real estate Broker
Alot of entitled folks kicking around these forums. Jeep owes you nothing. If you are going to complain about the EV range, try buying ANY other EV. None of them get what they say. Some are slighly higher, some are slightly lower. Hell my 2020 Rav4 Hybrid gets 44mpg in the summer and low 30's in the winter. I am not crying at Toyota.
Good point it's just that we were sold on different specs when Jeep obviously knew better weeks or months prior..
 

dudemind

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
358
Reaction score
354
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon
Alot of entitled folks kicking around these forums. Jeep owes you nothing. If you are going to complain about the EV range, try buying ANY other EV. None of them get what they say. Some are slighly higher, some are slightly lower. Hell my 2020 Rav4 Hybrid gets 44mpg in the summer and low 30's in the winter. I am not crying at Toyota.
You're missing the point entirely. Nobody is complaining that the 4xe doesn't live up to the claimed mileage. Nobody even has a 4xe in their possession in order to verify that. The frustration stems from the fact that some revised numbers trickling out seem to be significantly lower than the initial "estimates", to the point where it feels a little like foul play.

That said, it is a little too early to be in a state of full-blown outrage over this, as nothing is yet final and we may very well be looking at numbers that only apply to other regions. But if the new, less-impressive numbers do in fact apply to US orders as well, people would have every right to feel a bit bait-and-switch'd. Where one draws the line between estimation error versus "holy crap, I was swindled" is their own prerogative.

For a little thought experiment, we can contrive a couple examples. In the first, let's say the final numbers come in with a grand total reduction of exactly ONE horsepower and ONE lb-ft of torque; in this case, I think all of us (or at least the vast majority) would comfortably accept that there was a small error in measurement or estimation. In the second example, let's say the final numbers show a massive 80% reduction in horsepower and torque; in this case, I'd be surprised if there was a single person who didn't feel tricked. The reality is somewhere in-between, with numbers coming out showing a reduction of 25 horsepower, 28 lb-ft of torque, 1kWh of capacity, 4 miles of all-electric range, and 30 miles of total range. Again, these numbers are likely not final (at least for us American folks), but if they are, it wouldn't be wrong for somebody to say that's uncomfortably close to the holy-crap-I-was-swindled side of the spectrum, even if it feels like a no-big-deal type of change to you. The world isn't so black and white, in fact most of it is filled with grey area.
 

KarlN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Karl
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
127
Reaction score
130
Location
Sparks, NV.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited 4XE
Occupation
Real estate Broker
You're missing the point entirely. Nobody is complaining that the 4xe doesn't live up to the claimed mileage. Nobody even has a 4xe in their possession in order to verify that. The frustration stems from the fact that some revised numbers trickling out seem to be significantly lower than the initial "estimates", to the point where it feels a little like foul play.

That said, it is a little too early to be in a state of full-blown outrage over this, as nothing is yet final and we may very well be looking at numbers that only apply to other regions. But if the new, less-impressive numbers do in fact apply to US orders as well, people would have every right to feel a bit bait-and-switch'd. Where one draws the line between estimation error versus "holy crap, I was swindled" is their own prerogative.

For a little thought experiment, we can contrive a couple examples. In the first, let's say the final numbers come in with a grand total reduction of exactly ONE horsepower and ONE lb-ft of torque; in this case, I think all of us (or at least the vast majority) would comfortably accept that there was a small error in measurement or estimation. In the second example, let's say the final numbers show a massive 80% reduction in horsepower and torque; in this case, I'd be surprised if there was a single person who didn't feel tricked. The reality is somewhere in-between, with numbers coming out showing a reduction of 25 horsepower, 28 lb-ft of torque, 1kWh of capacity, 4 miles of all-electric range, and 30 miles of total range. Again, these numbers are likely not final (at least for us American folks), but if they are, it wouldn't be wrong for somebody to say that's uncomfortably close to the holy-crap-I-was-swindled side of the spectrum, even if it feels like a no-big-deal type of change to you. The world isn't so black and white, in fact most of it is filled with grey area.
Very well said, Thank you!
 

jdeolivares

Well-Known Member
First Name
Juan
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
83
Reaction score
114
Location
Ca
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe
Accusations that Jeep deliberately tried to deceive have no evidence to support that claim. Why would they even do that? Like it’s not eventually going to come out. It’s almost certain that the estimated specs they published were based on certain driving conditions and performance of the components in the vehicle. The variation in the original estimates could be do to different driving assumptions by the regulating bodies or variation in component performance that is not often seen until a larger number of units are built.

As someone who has been in the business of developing and manufacturing complex scientific instruments for more than 30 years, transitioning from a pre production pilot run to full blown production almost always uncovers some unexpected issues. We all have come to expect that everything just works as advertised. But, most don’t understand how difficult it is to make that happen.

Jeep is building a vehicle designed to do what no other vehicle has done before. Maintain the industry leading off road capability and improve fuel efficiency, particular in use as a daily driver, and improve all around performance, all at the same time.

Yes, ev technology has been in use for some time in other vehicles. But in vehicles designed for the road. Not a vehicle that has the off road go anywhere capability of a Jeep Wrangler.
 

dudemind

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
358
Reaction score
354
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon
Accusations that Jeep deliberately tried to deceive have no evidence to support that claim. Why would they even do that? Like it’s not eventually going to come out. It’s almost certain that the estimated specs they published were based on certain driving conditions and performance of the components in the vehicle. The variation in the original estimates could be do to different driving assumptions by the regulating bodies or variation in component performance that is not often seen until a larger number of units are built.

As someone who has been in the business of developing and manufacturing complex scientific instruments for more than 30 years, transitioning from a pre production pilot run to full blown production almost always uncovers some unexpected issues. We all have come to expect that everything just works as advertised. But, most don’t understand how difficult it is to make that happen.

Jeep is building a vehicle designed to do what no other vehicle has done before. Maintain the industry leading off road capability and improve fuel efficiency, particular in use as a daily driver, and improve all around performance, all at the same time.

Yes, ev technology has been in use for some time in other vehicles. But in vehicles designed for the road. Not a vehicle that has the off road go anywhere capability of a Jeep Wrangler.
Again, where do you draw that line? And is it your call to say whether somebody is "wrong" for having a lower comfort threshold than you do?

Slight variation of my previous example, let's say that every single day the numbers are revised downward by 1hp/1lb-ft of torque, until you get to the point where you have literally no power left. First few days, maybe the first hundred, you shrug it off. But at what point do you say, "Okay, then the first set of numbers was clearly bullshit"? If Jeep came out tomorrow and said "Hey so the new numbers are 100 hp, 125 lb-ft of torque, 2 miles of EV range, and 50 miles total range", would you be okay with that? Naturally, this example is very contrived, but I'm trying to illustrate the point that some people might find the newer numbers (again, if they're final) to already be at the point where disappointment is warranted.

Everybody's got a different threshold for acceptable margin of error. If you've been developing complex scientific instruments for three decades, you're more than familiar with this, as any measurement instrument has a known error margin, with a strong correlation between higher quality and low error margin values. A corporation with the resources of Jeep/FCA to having a high-single-digit to low-double-digit margin of error (depending on which figure we're talking about) can certainly seem a bit questionable, to the point where one might wonder if there was some deliberate embellishment early on. Maybe not you, but somebody else.

Again, it's not about the real-world performance not living up to the claims. It's about the claims themselves changing by an amount that some might consider significant. Further, the argument that this is all so new because it has the "off-road-go-anywhere capability of a Jeep Wrangler" is faulty, as that has nothing to do with a manufacturer's ability to correctly estimate battery capacity and power output (though I might grant you the discrepancy in range figures). Your argument would imply that if they took the same exact powertrain and battery and dropped it into, say, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, somehow the estimated figures would have been more accurate from the get-go? That's bogus.

I reiterate: everybody's got a different tolerance threshold. At some point, per my example above, anybody would cry foul. I'm not fully there yet, but I'm getting pretty close, where it's starting to feel just a bit nefarious. But I couldn't fault somebody for having a tighter tolerance for this type of thing. Everybody who "jumps off the wagon" earlier than you will always seem a little sensitive. It's more than a little egocentric and ultimately hypocritical to be unable to see from their point of view, because at some point, you'd jump off that wagon too.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement

Quake LED
 
Advertisement
Top