Sunrider is Pointless: Epilogue

[JeepDave]

No need to re-hash the Sunrider points from that epic debate, just a vote on your final decision of what Jeep is officially saying is fine...

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[Bryce]

Needs a 3rd option. The top is new, but you can still use Sunrider position with the top in. The manual has been updated with an addendum for this.

Manufactures update manuals for stuff all the time (not just cars) with an addendum. They don't just shit can all the printed manuals. That could be a huge cost. They add an addendum to the pallets of manuals they have printed, and update in a future edition of the manual.

I enjoy my Soft Top in Sunrider position with the windows in place, but close it up if I'm hammering out miles down the highway.

 

[JeepDave]

Needs a 3rd option. The top is new, but you can still use Sunrider position with the top in. The manual has been updated with an addendum for this.

Manufactures update manuals for stuff all the time (not just cars) with an addendum. They don't just shit can all the printed manuals. That could be a huge cost. They add an addendum to the pallets of manuals they have printed, and update in a future edition of the manual.

I enjoy my Soft Top in Sunrider position with the windows in place, but close it up if I'm hammering out miles down the highway.

That's answer 2, windows in, same as it ever was...

 

[mwilk012]

Needs a 3rd option. The top is new, but you can still use Sunrider position with the top in. The manual has been updated with an addendum for this.

Manufactures update manuals for stuff all the time (not just cars) with an addendum. They don't just shit can all the printed manuals. That could be a huge cost. They add an addendum to the pallets of manuals they have printed, and update in a future edition of the manual.

I enjoy my Soft Top in Sunrider position with the windows in place, but close it up if I'm hammering out miles down the highway.

Aaaand this is another falsehood. This topic needs to die already.

 

[Rahneld]

No need to re-hash the Sunrider points from that epic debate, just a vote on your final decision of what Jeep is officially saying is fine...

Whose "official" here Dave? FCA, the Wrangler community, etc.? I'm not here to debate you on your reply, rather, state your terms so we can state our answers in those terms. : - )

 

[JeepDave]

Official by FCA /Jeep - did they change Sunrider (Owners Manual) or not (common sense, past/current experience)...so what is Jeep trying to say - take out windows or leave them in since they say both...

 

[Rahneld]

Official by FCA /Jeep - did they change Sunrider (Owners Manual) or not (common sense, past/current experience)...so what is Jeep trying to say - take out windows or leave them in since they say both...

Given your wording, I can't answer until I know what the owner's manual for the JK said about removing soft windows, if anything, when taking the top into Sunrider mode.

If your wording was merely "no windows," that would be the correct answer according to FCA as @JeepCares not only concurs, but the manual does too: and the manual trumps all other operating guides by FCA's own word, having you refer to it from all other operating guides, while it the manual refers to no others.

This would prove legally as well, but I sense that's out of scope for you and apt to reinitiate fights.

 

[Rahneld]

The manual has been updated with an addendum for this.

Bryce: please source where the owner's manual provides this addendum. I am unaware of it. At nauseum from the other thread, this is FCA's official "contract" as to vehicular usage with you, at least by law.

Manufactures update manuals for stuff all the time (not just cars) with an addendum. They don't just shit can all the printed manuals. That could be a huge cost. They add an addendum to the pallets of manuals they have printed, and update in a future edition of the manual.

Fair enough: and "legal" usually has them write, "this document superceedes, etc."

..happens all the time in technical service bulletins..but the owner's manual?

 

[Rahneld]

Official by FCA /Jeep - did they change Sunrider (Owners Manual) or not (common sense, past/current experience)...so what is Jeep trying to say - take out windows or leave them in since they say both...

FCA is going to go with "the line" that indemnifies them and in this case is legally binding: the owner's manual, which says remove the windows.

I concede that other documents like the glove box supplement say differently: opposite in fact.

In the game of "rock, paper, scissors," at least in court and by FCA's word, the owner's manual is "rock," and all else dealing with operating the JL, if not service, is "scissors."

If your not talking legal that's fine. Say so. But if you are, case law supports this.

I ride with my window in frequently, think the risk is very minimal on properly installed windows, and suspect that the "yank them" guidance was FCA's legal team's contribution.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Stop the press!! Check out the latest manual.

 

[Bryce]

..happens all the time in technical service bulletins..but the owner's manual?

Yes, there are 4 editions of the owners manual online for my 2001 F250. Mine came with the 2nd edition. It also came with suplimental manuals and an addendum sheet when I got it new in 2001.

Don't think just because its in the manual, its correct. If it was, Kawasaki owes every Kawasaki KLR650 owner a 6th gear! Manual talks about shifting from 5th to 6th and back. But never has had a 6th gear in 30 some of years of production.

 

[Rahneld]

What's a falsehood?

..when fact is not spoken.

Yes, there are 4 editions of the owners manual online for my 2001 F250. Mine came with the 2nd edition. It also came with suplimental manuals and an addendum sheet when I got it new in 2001.

Don't think just because its in the manual, its correct.

If we're assuming FCA's word is the correct one, and their official word is the owner's manual, I'm afraid I don't just think it, I know it.

If it was, Kawasaki owes every Kawasaki KLR650 owner a 6th gear! Manual talks about shifting from 5th to 6th and back. But never has had a 6th gear in 30 some of years of production.

Bryce, the fact that addendums to manuals may exist, from other manufacturers or FCA is irrelevant.

There are two options: produce the addendum to the JL's owner's manual that overrides the instructions to remove the soft windows when taking the soft top to Sunrider position or beyond (or a link to it) and convince me, the law, and all others, or hold your peace.

I'd be thrilled to see this addendum, never claiming it doesn't exist, just asking you to provide it.

Until then, the owner's manual trumps all other operational manuals/user's guides/glove box inserts, at least by FCA's word and law, and that manual has you remove the soft windows before talking the top to Sunrider mode and beyond.

Again, this is entirely apart from whether I think bad things will happen if you don't. I strongly suspect nothing bad will happen especially if your soft windows are properly installed.

 

[Rahneld]

I've had a cool Spring where I live and accordingly have yet to change the hard top to the soft. I have though, as I do in Spring and Fall, replaced the hard top's Freedom Panels with the Bestop Sunrider product: I appreciate fully out of scope for this thread.

I say this because it seems easier to convince all that not removing the hard top's otherwise unremovable windows while opening this Sunrider product up is fine, than convincing all that FCA officially says to remove the soft top windows when placing the soft top in Sunrider position. : - )

 

[JeepDave]

Stop the press!! Check out the latest manual.

Given your wording, I can't answer until I know what the owner's manual for the JK said about removing soft windows, if anything, when taking the top into Sunrider mode.

I think that was covered in the other thread, something about leaving the windows in (JK) up to 40, 45 MPH...so go on and vote, all the info is out there...

 

[digitalbliss]

No need to re-hash the Sunrider points from that epic debate, just a vote on your final decision of what Jeep is officially saying is fine...

So much for the request not to re-hash....

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