You wanted cheaper prices, right?

[2nd 392]

The argument continues, with both sides making valid points.
Union pay- benefits set standards that improve everyone else’s.
Union work standards suppress performance based raises- promotions and protect the low performing.
Ridiculous demands like working 4 days and getting paid for 5 push companies excessively.
All Companies first priority is profit. They push customers to the extent of not correcting known issues, and Labor is also a top expense they want to reduce.
Get all you can continues until the sales level. The dealer has an over 50% mark up on this $145,684 Jeep—
Where do we place the high price blame ?

Sorry, expand to read.

Sponsored

 

[STW]

......
Where do we place the high price blame ?

I blame you for regularly telling us, and presumably everyone else too, how much you love the 392.

And for buying two of them!

but seriously, it does sound fun. I'd have considered it if they'd put the 392 into a 2door. Considered it, and then come to my senses I hope.

 

[NWJeepr]

The more you know, the harder life is. That's where the "ignorance is bliss" cliche comes from. After 7 years of college and over 20 years in multiple scientific fields, I often find myself completely worn out from stress of knowing too much about the world and wishing that I had just remained dumb. The truth is that reality is pretty scary.

I don't have the answer for our current quality issues. What seems obvious is that companies need to first pay up so their employees are happy, and then make clear that quality work is a primary expectation. Once the pay is there, anyone failing to perform should be canned and replaced (which should be easy if you pay well enough). Problem is that unions are very well funded and way too powerful...and do not want worker performance at the forefront.

Unions have their place and they also have their dysfunctions. I kind of guessed this thread would become a referendum on unions, but it started with pricing and the effect of outsourcing. Of course unions were going to come up.

The argument continues, with both sides making valid points.
Union pay- benefits set standards that improve everyone else’s.
Union work standards suppress performance based raises- promotions and protect the low performing.
Ridiculous demands like working 4 days and getting paid for 5 push companies excessively.
All Companies first priority is profit. They push customers to the extent of not correcting known issues, and Labor is also a top expense they want to reduce.
Get all you can continues until the sales level. The dealer has an over 50% mark up on this $145,684 Jeep—
Where do we place the high price blame ?

Sorry, expand to read.

LOL.... $50k markup on top of an inflated MSRP, and there's still a line-item for $199 wheel locks.

Like, brah, maybe asking for lube is too much. How about at least just some spit?

 

[Zandcwhite]

Resale matters...it doesn't matter if you are making enough that you can buy a Model S Plaid in one paycheck or you have to finance like regular people. We're talking $50-$100k purchases here. Absolutely no one is ok with buying something with that kind of price tag that's going to be worth $20k in three years. Even if you're the rich guy - cause when "the poor" can buy your beautiful "luxury sedan" on the used market for $20k...what's so special about it?

And i'm not seeing how the small savings on fuel are going to do anything at all to make up for resale value.

We definitely agree on FCA though. When I went shopping for a new truck, I ruled out RAM right off the bat because I don't want to be at the mercy of FCA for TWO of my vehicles. One is already more than enough. Otherwise a Rebel or TRX would have been on my shopping list.

Please show me the model s plaid that's 3 years old for $20k, I'll but 3 of them today. Looks like about 3x your estimated resale value?

 

[2nd 392]

Unions have their place and they also have their dysfunctions. I kind of guessed this thread would become a referendum on unions, but it started with pricing and the effect of outsourcing. Of course unions were going to come up.






LOL.... $50k markup on top of an inflated MSRP, and there's still a line-item for $199 wheel locks.

Like, brah, maybe asking for lube is too much. How about at least just some spit?

$199 for the chintzy designed for vice grip removal Mopar locks I threw away. But they were a free perk. No loss ? @Nitehawk92

 

[2nd 392]

I blame you for regularly telling us, and presumably everyone else too, how much you love the 392.

And for buying two of them!

but seriously, it does sound fun. I'd have considered it if they'd put the 392 into a 2door. Considered it, and then come to my senses I hope.

I wish I did, my son took it picking up a “last call” Scat Pack Charger replacement for his 11. He said I should have bought two 21’s and hermetically sealed one for the future. Could have for that price….. I would have a 2 dr…if. ?

 

[Nitehawk92]

The argument continues, with both sides making valid points.
Union pay- benefits set standards that improve everyone else’s.
Union work standards suppress performance based raises- promotions and protect the low performing.
Ridiculous demands like working 4 days and getting paid for 5 push companies excessively.
All Companies first priority is profit. They push customers to the extent of not correcting known issues, and Labor is also a top expense they want to reduce.
Get all you can continues until the sales level. The dealer has an over 50% mark up on this $145,684 Jeep—
Where do we place the high price blame ?

Sorry, expand to read.

With a $50,000 mark up and they are asking $199.00 for wheel locks...

 

[PeatedWhisky]

Waaaa.

If you're suggesting the current generation has it harder than previous generations, I'm not buying, and neither is anybody else outside your generation. Everything about my kids' life experience, from the behavior standards enforced in grade school, to the lowering of academic standards, to the general rules of accountability were softened or muted. Assaultive bullies remained in school, academic expectations declined, the length and number of school days declined, and everybody got a trophy, regardless of performance. Protecting self-esteem became the #1 priority, while academics, rigorous testing of minds and bodies, and development of useful life skills fell to distant second, third, and fourth priorities. I can't tell you how many times my kids came home from school with lessons in math, science, and English that were either wrong, painfully dumbed-down, or both. They had several brilliant and committed teachers over 12 years, thank goodness, but the vast majority were mediocre to terrible. Many spoke terrible English, and even sub-par academic performance was rewarded with honors grades. Everybody moved forward. Failure was all but impossible. The "gifted" math class was a grade behind the mainstream math class when I was the same grade. Our kids became academically competitive because my wife and I aggressively corrected and augmented their education. (The school tested "academic readiness" at the beginning and end of every academic year. For three years running our kids started the school year three grades above level, and finished the year one grade above level. Basically, the public school system gradually reduced/retarded the progress we made over the summer.)

If you don't think the current generation is more needy, more whiney, less driven, and less resilient/durable there's a truckload of books on the topic, including some very favorably reviewed management and leadership books describing how we might coddle young adults into productivity. You might start with "Not Everyone Gets a Trophy". It's actually much more encouraging than the title suggests. It suggests that the current generation might have the tools to become the most productive generation ever, they just need especially gentle, encouraging, directive, handling. I don't have the patience for it.

I generally agree with your take, but you there are some things where data doesn't line up. The generation just hitting the workforce now is Gen Z, and the data (and my experience) shows them to be exceptionally hard workers. The generation you are referring too is old news and busy raising their own kids now so we won't hear much from them for a bit...

Also, it is in fact harder now than it was for previous generations. The cost of education and housing have dramatically increased relative to income. Gen Z is going to be the first generation in the history of our country to have things worse than the previous generation, that is probably not avoidable at this point. Anecdotally, I have one kid in college and another heading there soon, so I get to see some of this first hand, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around some of the issues they have to deal with.

For those ripping on India, I've been in software engineering for over 25years now and I have worked with literally thousands of Indians both in the US and offshore. The quality has dramatically improved, and the communication gaps have lessened. I don't think I can tell the difference anymore. I do think it's important to not offshore to another company, but to setup a business in India of your own (which is a non-trivial task). If that business offers a path to the US, you will get good candidates, and over time you have to focus on your reputation, it matters much more in India than the US.

I don't really expect Jeep to see much of a difference, they have a shitty culture and the location of their factories won't change that. That being said, lower costs will always create downward pressure on pricing, but at the end of the day, pricing is much more influenced by the market, and increasingly, government.

 

[PeatedWhisky]

Lol, nice factual support you've provided. I would venture to say most 5th graders today have learned more math than you did by the end of high school. I'm going to enjoy my avocado toast while you continue to yell at clouds.

Why would you think that? I'm bearing down on 50, and standard high school math ended at Calculus when I went to school. It's basically the same now, except we didn't have the tragedy that was "Common Core."

 

[siggy]

Why would you think that? I'm bearing down on 50, and standard high school math ended at Calculus when I went to school. It's basically the same now, except we didn't have the tragedy that was "Common Core."

In my area they’re teaching calculus in the 8th grade.

 

[2nd 392]

Why would you think that? I'm bearing down on 50, and standard high school math ended at Calculus when I went to school. It's basically the same now, except we didn't have the tragedy that was "Common Core."

Grandson asked for help with his math.

I couldn’t help, accountant grandma couldn’t believe the stupid either.
No wonder they have to push a picture of a burger on the register. Then go Tilt if you give them an extra 7c to get a quarter back

 

[PeatedWhisky]

In my area they’re teaching calculus in the 8th grade.

That's also atypical. I mean, if you were on an accelerated plan when I was a kid you could take it whenever you got there, but the standard path was senior year.

 

[TheRaven]

Also, it is in fact harder now than it was for previous generations.

Not true. You cite the metrics by which you make this claim, however you forget that modern generations' access to technology has made living life SO much easier. Yes, cars, houses, education and other luxuries are far more expensive now than they were for early Gen X and Boomers...but you forget that those generations never had things like smartphones, tablets, infotainment, super Wal-Marts, Texas Roadhouses, Amazon...and so on...so many conveniences that current generations could not survive without. Those previous generations didn't have TIME for a lot of that stuff because they needed to rest after a long day working in the foundry/mill/factory, then coming home and making sure dinner was provided and the house was kept up. That was life back then.

So yeah, financially things are a lot worse but that's not all there is to life. We have so much more time to ENJOY life, regardless of one's income level, because of all the tech that makes quick work of what used to be time-consuming and/or back-breaking work. Things were a lot cheaper for early Gen X and Boomers, but they also had to work a lot harder for the money to get those things.

Each generation has it better than the last, that's always been true and always will be, until the end.

 

[Wbino]

I've only worked in two union environments, and I was a union member for less than five years. I wanted to be paid better for better performance, and I wanted low performers to work somewhere else, so union life wasn't for me.

All the union did for me was lighten my paycheck for dues, so I did better in every respect after I left.

Do you remember the "Yugo"? It was an incredibly cheap car, built with incredibly cheap labor. It's run in the USA was very short, in spite of the low price -- because it was a piece of crap. People, myself included, are willing to pay up for quality. That, and a desire to see our country remain financially sound and economically independent, have cause me to beat the buy-American drum loudly for the last 30 years. I still bang that drum today, so I buy the thicker $30 American-made T-shirts, not the $4 Vietnamese and Indonesian T-shirts I see at Walmart. But, based on the quality of the products they are building, the UAW workers don't seem to measure up to their counterparts at Lexus. When my new UAW-built pickup truck has a Monroney sticker that's $47,000 above my wife's new Lexus it causes me to pause and reflect. Perhaps the uber-rich UAW union leadership should consider working with management to improve performance and vehicle quality? Just a thought.

Maybe my former union was the exception to the rule, but quality of worker performance never came up once in any of the union meetings I attended. Not once, even in connection with employer demands in the context of negotiation. It was always focused on demanding more money, more benefits, and less work, even when we already had it easier than the private sector folks doing the same work. The only people I ever saw getting union help were the deadbeats the rest of the team had to carry, and those who had committed serious workplace violations.

Do Firemen who are union go up ladders slower?
Do Cops who are union deserve less respect?
Teachers are mostly union they are teaching our children.
There is a reason companies resist unions....because they can't ride over everyone.
You on the other hand seem like a perfect employee. ?

 

[NWJeepr]

No wonder they have to push a picture of a burger on the register. Then go Tilt if you give them an extra 7c to get a quarter back

Probably tilt because they can't believe a boomer is paying with cash...including change. Probably after digging around in a grungy pocket and counting it out on their hand, while people who work for a living are standing behind them, on their lunch break. "Oh yeah, I'll get rid of this nickel and two pennies to confuse them, but when I tell them off, I'll get a shiny quarter back! Because I can make change from back when we did it on a stone tablet!"



Who does that?


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