With the 4xe gone, should eTorque return?

[Zandcwhite]

You do know that Stellantis themselves killed off eTorque even before this administration was elected, right?

They killed it because it was total junk - a half assed poorly engineered solution to be able to market some sort of electrification.

It's amazing how people who bought into dead end technology delude themselves into thinking it was good and should return.

Who the heck wants an off-roader with a bunch batteries and cooling lines running on the outside of the vehicle exposed to off road obstacles?

All proper hybrids, even on road going vehicles, have the batteries inside and/or protected. The eTorque is probably the single worse design of an off-road hybrid system possible.

While I agree the etorque was pretty well useless, how many thousands of them have been wheeled since 2018? Have you seen a single battery damaged from wheeling? I haven't. Not out on the trails, not from talking to the dealer service department, and not even on this forum where the 19 4xe battery fires have many convinced that all ~400k are catching fire tomorrow. It's tucked up pretty tight to the body and has a pretty good skid from the factory. Pretty comparable to the fuel tank on every Jeep and I've yet to see one of those damaged wheeling either.

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[Terrymo]

While I agree the etorque was pretty well useless, how many thousands of them have been wheeled since 2018? Have you seen a single battery damaged from wheeling? I haven't. Not out on the trails, not from talking to the dealer service department, and not even on this forum where the 19 4xe battery fires have many convinced that all ~400k are catching fire tomorrow. It's tucked up pretty tight to the body and has a pretty good skid from the factory. Pretty comparable to the fuel tank on every Jeep and I've yet to see one of those damaged wheeling either.

Although I do I have Metalcloak skids I have been unkind to my etorque battery

 

[gato]

While I agree the etorque was pretty well useless, how many thousands of them have been wheeled since 2018? Have you seen a single battery damaged from wheeling? I haven't. Not out on the trails, not from talking to the dealer service department, and not even on this forum where the 19 4xe battery fires have many convinced that all ~400k are catching fire tomorrow. It's tucked up pretty tight to the body and has a pretty good skid from the factory. Pretty comparable to the fuel tank on every Jeep and I've yet to see one of those damaged wheeling either.

That was just a side point - poor engineering.

The main point is that it was so bad that Stellantis killed it and stopped offering themselves, before any change in administration of federal policy.

Ask the question - why did Stellantis kill it in 2023?

 

[BXFXJeep]

That was just a side point - poor engineering.

The main point is that it was so bad that Stellantis killed it and stopped offering themselves, before any change in administration of federal policy.

Ask the question - why did Stellantis kill it in 2023?

Same reason they killed it on the 2.0T, seems they were experimenting with integrating a High Voltage system.

The 2.0T eTorque was killed off when the Wrangler 4xe launched, then they needed to figure out how to get it working for the Gladiator 4xe with a 3.6.

It has a cooling system, the MGU, the wiring, and transmission modifications, almost like the 4xe, but with questionable benefits, especially when Jeep upcharge $2,000+ for it

 

[Zandcwhite]

That was just a side point - poor engineering.

The main point is that it was so bad that Stellantis killed it and stopped offering themselves, before any change in administration of federal policy.

Ask the question - why did Stellantis kill it in 2023?

Absolutely agree. What the fans don't want to realize or admit is that the etorque models have the same 0-60 and the same fuel economy as the non-etorque models IF you're comparing the same trim. How is it quicker off the line but you can't measure it? How is it more efficient but you can't measure that either? What little power it adds is eaten up by the extra weight so you break even at best. That's a whole bunch of complexity, added maintenance, and expensive parts to gain nothing which is why it was killed.

 

[AFD]

Have the 3.6L eTorque myself and voted no. The system itself is an interesting idea, but in the JL, there really isn't any appreciable MHEV benefits to outweigh the added complexity and eventual need to replace a costly 48V lithium battery.

However, if they were to bring back the eTorque and it actually improved fuel economy and added a more substantial/longer-lasting boost in power, then I'd probably feel differently. The supposed ~90 ft-lb of added torque for a quarter-wheel turn, the smoothed-out auto-trans shifts and zero difference in MPG just isn't enough to justify the system imo.

 

[gato]

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how an executive could have signed off on this system. Can you imagine being at the sign off meeting:

Project Lead: "We have a system that adds a costly battery under the Jeep, runs a bunch of cooling lines outside the Jeep, requires a giant BSG in place of an alternator"
Sign-off Exec "Does it get faster acceleration?"
PL: "No"
EX: "Does it get better EPA ratings"
PL: "No"
EX: "What benefits does it provide"
PL:"We can claim electrification"
EX:"Does it actually move the vehicle"
PL:"Well, yes, but only for a 1/4 of a rotation of the wheel"
EX: :"Good enough, approved for production"

It really can't be any worse than this.

 

[reidcc]

I was not a fan of etorque, until I got one. Having both the regular 3.6 and then the etorque version has made me a believer. I like the extra pep if provides and the BSG is a beast of a charging system.

Hi-

We bought 2 JLU's over the course of a year. I registered back in 2024, but really don't spend much time here.

Anyway- my wife has had a 19 Sahara with the Pentastar. I really like how "light on its feet" it felt during daily driving - meaning the 3.6 drivetrain responded very easily for whatever input to the go pedal. In Jun 2024- I bought a 21 Sahara and realized after the fact it was the etorque 3.6 . Its gas mileage is roughly 3 MPG better than the regular 3.6, but its drivability relating to throttle inputs and driving feel seems much less than the regular 3.6. It doesn't feel as linear when hitting the go pedal? It feels more labored in driving?

Her 19 only has 25K on it, and I bought my 21 in June of 24 with only 21K on, but now at 35k.

Did both you versions feel differently in drivability?

Thx
Chris

 

[jeepoch]

@Boatbuilder88

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...one-should-etorque-return.162623/post-3341398

Mandate, coersion, pressure or CAFE extortion, take your pick, it's pretty much been due to the green environmental push over the previous decade.

Get over the ambiguous use of the word. Strong arm tactics nonetheless to implement a god awful system that nearly nobody wants, likes or does whatever they can to eliminate it.

Be truthful, I'll bet you @Ratbert 's paycheck, that you have ESS disabled on your rig.

Clearly, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't thrust down both the manufacturers and then our throats.

Something for a despised system I had absolutely no say over. Not an option to delete on any sales sheet. Resistance isn't just futile, in this case its been irrelevant.

Hence my use of the word 'mandate'.

Cheers,
Jay

 

[gato]

@Boatbuilder88

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...one-should-etorque-return.162623/post-3341398

Mandate, coersion, pressure or CAFE extortion, take your pick, it's pretty much been due to the green environmental push over the previous decade.

Get over the ambiguous use of the word. Strong arm tactics nonetheless to implement a god awful system that nearly nobody wants, likes or does whatever they can to eliminate it.

Be truthful, I'll bet you @Ratbert 's paycheck, that you have ESS disabled on your rig.

Clearly, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't thrust down both the manufacturers and then our throats.

Something for a despised system I had absolutely no say over. Not an option to delete on any sales sheet. Resistance isn't just futile, in this case its been irrelevant.

Hence my use of the word 'mandate'.

Cheers,
Jay

There is nothing wrong in offering a hybrid system to meet fuel consumptions goals.

The issue is that almost no other automaker has such a brain dead and faulty implementation.

I have ESS on my BMW. I pressed a button one time and it remembers it state at the next start up. It has a single battery, not the overly complex Jeep dual set up with the ridiculous fail-prone interconnect. I never gave it a second thought to my BMW's ESS - on the JL it is dozens of threads with hundreds of posts.

Similarly for the e-Torque. No other automaker that I know off, sold such a complex system to turn the wheel 1/4 turn on start up, and then abandoned it 1/2 way through the production run because of issues.

So yes. Jeep's implementation of it is brain dead. And if it was a good idea in 2018 why was it dropped in 2023? Answer: it was a horrible idea/implementation.

 

[Boatbuilder88]

@Boatbuilder88

Be truthful, I'll bet you @Ratbert 's paycheck, that you have ESS disabled on your rig.

It's a bet! ESS operates seamlessly on my 2.0L w/eTorque so I do not disable ESS. I take venmo.

 

[BigRedRidinHood]

That was just a side point - poor engineering.

The main point is that it was so bad that Stellantis killed it and stopped offering themselves, before any change in administration of federal policy.

Ask the question - why did Stellantis kill it in 2023?

Simple answer.....cost. The enormous 48 Volt battery, dedicated cooling circuit, a dedicated electric motor encased within the transmission, and dedicated software/hardware required to handoff the motor to the engine must have cost $10k more than the today's very unreliable motorcycle battery/main system battery. BMW X5 has used a mild hybrid system without any problems.. They killed the two battery system and went to the mild hybrid system around 2018. This is the reverse of what Stellanitis did. All of the above was done to meet stricter and stricter CAFE mandates, which have since been rolled back.. So RIP ESS. I recently eliminated this engine oil starvation system in my JLUR, and added an oil catch can to save the valves from excess carbon deposits. I am always surprised at how much oil is collected in that catch can, that would have been sent back into the engine.

 

[jeepoch]

It's a bet! ESS operates seamlessly on my 2.0L w/eTorque so I do not disable ESS. I take venmo.

Truthfully, I kinda like no engine noise when stopped too. It's nice, right up until it isn't. I've gone through five batteries in six years. The AUX batt is the 'worst' possible design cancer ever conceived for any automotive system throughout history. Edsel Ford can hold a candle high in comparison to the JL's ESS implementation disaster.

After 110K of trouble free miles on my 3.6L, the only warning and failure lights I've had to contend with have all been charging issues and ESS dysfunctions.

I try my best not to rip it completely out of my rig. I find that it works OK if I only let it auto stop/start just a few times per trip. Anything more, and there is just not enough alternator energy to keep up with the drain.

I wish that the automotive execs find the balls to stand up and fight for us consumers and not their gov't overlords for a change.

Please don't get me started on corporate taxes.

P.S. I bet @Ratbert 's paycheck. Your payup is with him. I'm just following the IRS model... Spend someone else's dough.

Best Regards,
Jay

 

[Wbino]

Truthfully, I kinda like no engine noise when stopped too. It's nice, right up until it isn't. I've gone through five batteries in six years. The AUX batt is the 'worst' possible design cancer ever conceived for any automotive system throughout history. Edsel Ford can hold a candle high in comparison to the JL's ESS implementation disaster.

After 110K of trouble free miles on my 3.6L, the only warning and failure lights I've had to contend with have all been charging issues and ESS dysfunctions.

I try my best not to rip it completely out of my rig. I find that it works OK if I only let it auto stop/start just a few times per trip. Anything more, and there is just not enough alternator energy to keep up with the drain.

I wish that the automotive execs find the balls to stand up and fight for us consumers and not their gov't overlords for a change.

Please don't get me started on corporate taxes.

P.S. I bet @Ratbert 's paycheck. Your payup is with him. I'm just following the IRS model... Spend someone else's dough.

Best Regards,
Jay

I still have my 12v battery in my 3.6 etorque that was delivered to me in April 2021.
I've never touched the disable button.
I will replace it before the winters over just to be on the safe side.
etorque features:

• Replaces Alternator: The MGU mounts where an alternator would normally be, connected by a thick belt.
• • Generates Power: It generates electricity to charge the 48-volt battery and power vehicle accessories.
  • Smooth Start/Stop: It restarts the engine silently and quickly after a stop, eliminating the harshness of traditional systems.
  • Torque Assist: It provides supplemental torque (like 130 lb-ft in some HEMIs) during acceleration and smooths gear shifts.
  • Regenerative Braking: It acts as a generator during braking to recapture energy, charging the battery.
  • Charges 12V Battery: A DC-DC converter steps down the 48V power to charge the regular 12V battery.

 

[jeepoch]

I still have my 12v battery in my 3.6 etorque that was delivered to me in April 2021.
I've never touched the disable button.
I will replace it before the winters over just to be on the safe side.
etorque features:

• Replaces Alternator: The MGU mounts where an alternator would normally be, connected by a thick belt.
• • Generates Power: It generates electricity to charge the 48-volt battery and power vehicle accessories.
  • Smooth Start/Stop: It restarts the engine silently and quickly after a stop, eliminating the harshness of traditional systems.
  • Torque Assist: It provides supplemental torque (like 130 lb-ft in some HEMIs) during acceleration and smooths gear shifts.
  • Regenerative Braking: It acts as a generator during braking to recapture energy, charging the battery.
  • Charges 12V Battery: A DC-DC converter steps down the 48V power to charge the regular 12V battery.

That's exactly why I voted for the eTorque. While it may not have any real world advantage to Jeep performance, it absolutely eliminates the asinine turd called the AUX motorcycle battery.

But I'll agree and be able to sleep soundly at night if the ESS system were to just evaporate and go down in the anals of history as a dodo-bird fart.

If you caught on to the shitty theme for the ESS system, you're an astute reader.

Jay

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