Is eTorque to 4xe conversion possible?

Fargo

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Normally I would prefer a simple Jeep with no more electronics than the OBDII. But since those days appear to be coming to an end, I'm trying to decided if I can stomach the complexity of the eTorque. Or do I need to stick with used Jeeps to keep things simpler. In trying to find a way to justify the existence of eTorque, I had a thought. Since the goverment seems intent on transitioning us to electric vehicles, I started wondering if there is any way to justify the added complexity of the eTorque system if it had the capabilty to be converted to a hybird system in the future. So here is what I was thinking:

With all the hype around electric vehicles and everyone being so optimistic that some miracle battery is just around the corner, could the eTorque be converted to an electric hybrid in the future? Since the eTorque already has an electric motor that is integrated into the driveline, could that motor be used to power the Jeep in similar fashion to the 4xe if the battery technology improved enough? How different is the electric motor in the 4xe vs the eTorque? If battery technology had that big breakthrough that everyone is depending on, how hard would it be to do a computer flash and use the eTorque system to power the Jeep for short distances? Or at least provide enough supplemental power to utilize regenerative bracking and extend the range by a noticeable amount.
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Sean L

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Normally I would prefer a simple Jeep with no more electronics than the OBDII. But since those days appear to be coming to an end, I'm trying to decided if I can stomach the complexity of the eTorque. Or do I need to stick with used Jeeps to keep things simpler. In trying to find a way to justify the existence of eTorque, I had a thought. Since the goverment seems intent on transitioning us to electric vehicles, I started wondering if there is any way to justify the added complexity of the eTorque system if it had the capabilty to be converted to a hybird system in the future. So here is what I was thinking:

With all the hype around electric vehicles and everyone being so optimistic that some miracle battery is just around the corner, could the eTorque be converted to an electric hybrid in the future? Since the eTorque already has an electric motor that is integrated into the driveline, could that motor be used to power the Jeep in similar fashion to the 4xe if the battery technology improved enough? How different is the electric motor in the 4xe vs the eTorque? If battery technology had that big breakthrough that everyone is depending on, how hard would it be to do a computer flash and use the eTorque system to power the Jeep for short distances? Or at least provide enough supplemental power to utilize regenerative bracking and extend the range by a noticeable amount.
In short, no.

The Etorque is simply replacing the alternator with a slightly bigger generator/starter, and attaching that to a 48v battery. The 4Xe has electric motors as part of the transmission, plus a large battery pack under the rear seats, inverters for varying levels of plug in charging etc... So if you think the ETorque is complex than the 4Xe will blow your mind!
 
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Fargo

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In short, no.

The Etorque is simply replacing the alternator with a slightly bigger generator/starter, and attaching that to a 48v battery. The 4Xe has electric motors as part of the transmission, plus a large battery pack under the rear seats, inverters for varying levels of plug in charging etc... So if you think the ETorque is complex than the 4Xe will blow your mind!
ESS does not have a motor, but eTorque has a motor. How else would it start moving the vehicle before the engine is started or help with the transmission shifts. I understand in its current state it only turns the wheel half a turn. But I assumed that was due to battery power. Granted, I also expect its a considerably smaller motor than the 4xe, so for sure there are limitations there. But it still has a motor that has enough power to move the Jeep forward. So it seems reasonable to me that with more battery power it should be able to do more than it currently does.
 

Sean L

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ESS does not have a motor, but eTorque has a motor. How else would it start moving the vehicle before the engine is started or help with the transmission shifts. I understand in its current state it only turns the wheel half a turn. But I assumed that was due to battery power. Granted, I also expect its a considerably smaller motor than the 4xe, so for sure there are limitations there. But it still has a motor that has enough power to move the Jeep forward. So it seems reasonable to me that with more battery power it should be able to do more than it currently does.
The Belt Starter/Generator itself is the motor you're thinking of with the ETorque. It replaces the alternator, and is used to start the engine and give a short torque boost to the gas engine in low RPMs.

The 4Xe has a much more robust electric motor in the Transmission that can propel the vehicle by itself, but requires a much bigger battery pack than the ETorque system.
 
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Fargo

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I knew the 4XE would be much more robust than the eTorque, but I thought the eTorque was more robust than you described. I thought if it had enough power to propel the Jeep at low rpm it might be able to do more. It really seems like an overly complicated system that serves no real purpose.

I'll watch the video you just posted. Thanks.
 

Sean L

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I knew the 4XE would be much more robust than the eTorque, but I thought the eTorque was more robust than you described. I thought if it had enough power to propel the Jeep at low rpm it might be able to do more. It really seems like an overly complicated system that serves no real purpose.

I'll watch the video you just posted. Thanks.
It works much better than the standard ESS system.
 
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Fargo

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It works much better than the standard ESS system.
Yeah, I've heard that. I'd rather have neither. GIven the choice between the two, I'd still take the ESS. It is much simpler and it can be deleted later if it gives issues. That eTorque is going to be a nightmare in 10-15 years. I need a very good reason to have such a complex system on my Jeep. For a system whose sole purpose is to start the vehicles engine at a stop light, its way more complex than it needs to be.
 
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Fargo

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Thats a pretty good video. I forgot the eTorque motor was just a small generator run off of a serpentine belt. For some reason I thought it was a pancake motor infront of the transmission. Your right that it would be pretty impossible to get that motor to do much more than it already is. You can only run so much torque through that serpentine belt. Actually I'm surprised at how much torque they are claiming it does add considering all the power passed through a belt. Really it all just reaffirms that its a system I don't want. I really hope they make it optional in 2022. But that seems unlikely.
 

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The 4xe still has the etorque, it's probably required to immediately match engine RPM to the trans speed. It's amazing how smooth the motor to engine transition is in hybrid mode in the middle of driving, if it weren't for the tach, it'd be hard to tell.

Something to remember is, with the tax credit, you basically go from the 2.0T to the 4xe for free (if you're already planning Sah, HA, or Rub)
 
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Fargo

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The 4xe still has the etorque,...
That is really interesting. I didn't know that. So your saying the 4xe has the BSG from the eTorque as well as its own electic motor? That really seems like over redundancy.

Something to remember is, with the tax credit, you basically go from the 2.0T to the 4xe for free (if you're already planning Sah, HA, or Rub)
As much as I dislike all the tech of the 4xe, I have considered purchasing one just because the $7500 tax credit makes it a pretty good deal. Let me share some observations on that. The other day I saw a use 4xe for sale with only a few thousand miles on it. It seemed odd to me that someone would trade in such a new vehicle. I didn't give it a whole lot of though until I was visiting my brother in another state last weekend and I saw the same thing. Another 4xe for sale with under 5000 miles on it. Either people really hate these things or people are purchasing 4xe's, taking the tax credit, then selling them on the used market for full price. I'm guessing its the later. I have also considered buying a 4xe for the tax credit, then trading it off for a Rubicon. Even after paying the sales tax twice, I think I could still come out ahead. But its a risk and a lot of hassle.
 

GATORB8

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That is really interesting. I didn't know that. So your saying the 4xe has the BSG from the eTorque as well as its own electic motor? That really seems like over redundancy.
They have to be able to operate independently to allow seperate drive modes, the etourqe setup seems to be perfectly taylored to the requirement. Of course it could be a different generator, but it's in the same spot. The big motor is in the trans.
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As much as I dislike all the tech of the 4xe, I have considered purchasing one just because the $7500 tax credit makes it a pretty good deal. Let me share some observations on that. The other day I saw a use 4xe for sale with only a few thousand miles on it. It seemed odd to me that someone would trade in such a new vehicle. I didn't give it a whole lot of though until I was visiting my brother in another state last weekend and I saw the same thing. Another 4xe for sale with under 5000 miles on it. Either people really hate these things or people are purchasing 4xe's, taking the tax credit, then selling them on the used market for full price. I'm guessing its the later. I have also considered buying a 4xe for the tax credit, then trading it off for a Rubicon. Even after paying the sales tax twice, I think I could still come out ahead. But its a risk and a lot of hassle.
I've seen people flipping leases, CCAP passes the tax credit through as a cap cost reduction, so it's immediately reallized.
 

aldo98229

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eTorque is a relatively mundane innovation that FCA completely bungled by the way it was marketed and priced.

eTorque first appeared on Rams. To this day, five years later, buyers —and dealers— still don’t understand what the heck eTorque is or does. But since it costs extra an no one knows what it is, no one wants it.

There’s no need to come up with long-winded gubbermint conspiracies. In this case the culprit is plain ole incompetence.
 

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An E-torque equipped Jeep can easily be converted to 4XE.
Simply raise the hard top, roll out the current powertrain with Jeep, roll new powertrain with Jeep under the hardtop, lower the hardtop and voila, conversion is finished.
 

GATORB8

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eTorque is a relatively mundane innovation that FCA completely bungled by the way it was marketed and priced.

eTorque first appeared on Rams. To this day, five years later, buyers —and dealers— still don’t understand what the heck eTorque is or does. But since it costs extra an no one knows what it is, no one wants it.

There’s no need to come up with long-winded gubbermint conspiracies. In this case the culprit is plain ole incompetence.
It’s actually a no cost upgrade now on my 22 order. IIRC it was like $2500 when I bought my 19.
 
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