Is eTorque to 4xe conversion possible?

GATORB8

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Posting on a forum the idea as a way to make money is surely enough to earn the charge.
Well, realistically, the majority of models from other manufacturers don’t even pass on the credit. Audi and BMW finance arms are pocketing it. Would much rather a buyer actually end up with it.
 

mwilk012

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Well, realistically, the majority of models from other manufacturers don’t even pass on the credit. Audi and BMW finance arms are pocketing it. Would much rather a buyer actually end up with it.
That’s not how it works though. It’s a tax credit. You get it back from the IRS when filing your taxes. I don’t see any way the Germans can step in to take your tax refund, but those Germans have done some pretty rough stuff in the past...
 
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Fargo

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It’s also illegal
I wondered if it might be illegal. Yet I keep seeing low mileage 4xes on dealer lots. So its been done. BUt who knows what the original intent was. Even if it was legal I would never do it because I wouldn't want to deal with the hassel of it all.

Sounds like you should lease vs buying so you can comply more easily to the wishes of the ruling elites with less out of pocket loss when the miracle battery arrives in the next few years. Or you could stand with the vast majority of truck owners and reject the nonsense of the elites that already look down on you for even wanting to owning a serious 4x4 truck with big tires.

I am being sarcastic so don’t loss your shirt.
Not sure I followed the sarcasm. I'm with the truck owners. I want nothing to do with start/stop nonsense. I was just trying to find some reason to want the eTorque. I don't see anything of value in it. I don't sit in traffic. Its a highway vehicle to get me to offroad trails. Its just extra weight.
 

Maverick909

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Y’all just need to buy the 3.6 with a 6speed. As long as you are in gear the ess will not work. There problem solved lol
 

mwilk012

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I wondered if it might be illegal. Yet I keep seeing low mileage 4xes on dealer lots. So its been done. BUt who knows what the original intent was. Even if it was legal I would never do it because I wouldn't want to deal with the hassel of it all.



Not sure I followed the sarcasm. I'm with the truck owners. I want nothing to do with start/stop nonsense. I was just trying to find some reason to want the eTorque. I don't see anything of value in it. I don't sit in traffic. Its a highway vehicle to get me to offroad trails. Its just extra weight.
It’s extra torque off road too.
 

Headbarcode

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I think the problem is no one really wants it. If you could get a Jeep with NO ESS, or NO eTorque or with either option, how many people would pay money for eTorque? What benefit does it offer? Smoother startups don't count because a Jeep with NO ESS or eTorque will never shutdown. So that issue is already avoided. So what does eTorque gain you over a traditional Pentastar with NO ESS, that you would pay addition money for?
Courtesy of the Tazer Mini, my Automatic Stop Start is disabled upon every startup. So, I don't take advantage of the 50% quicker and smoother stop/start events when compared to standard ESS.

Other benefits from BSG (eTorque)...
-The torque boost from idle to about 1500 rpm. Doesn't seem like much, but doesn't have to be. The largest load that can be put on any engine, drive train shafts, or electric motor is getting it moving from a dead stop.

-Regenerative charging from engine braking and transmission shifts. This takes some load off of the charging system, which can extend the lifespan of the said system.

-The Belt Start Generator (BSG, eTorque) is liquid cooled, which is more efficient at heat absorption/rejection than a traditional air-cooled alternator, so that can also extend the lifespan of that motor/charging system.

-The BSG helps the transmission to make smoother and quicker upshifts. It does this by brake pulsing the crankshaft to pull engine rpms down to the optimal shift point. A default benefit of this, is that the transmissions clutch packs aren't doing that solely on their own. Less clutch wear = less oil contamination = less abrasives eroding internal hard parts = increased potential longevity.

-Higher voltage = lower amperage = lower heat load in a given circuit. This lays a great foundation for being able to tap into the 48v. An example being the added accessories used in camping and other extended off grid adventures.
 
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Fargo

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The 6 speed option may not be a bad choice. I have considered going that route to avoid the eTorque. I've just heard such good things about the 8speed auto and my knees get worse as I get older. So I was looking at the auto. Revieing the comments quoted below, maybe the auto is still an option.

Courtesy of the Tazer Mini, my Automatic Stop Start is disabled upon every startup. So, I don't take advantage of the 50% quicker and smoother stop/start events when compared to standard ESS.

Other benefits from BSG (eTorque)...
-The torque boost from idle to about 1500 rpm. Doesn't seem like much, but doesn't have to be. The largest load that can be put on any engine, drive train shafts, or electric motor is getting it moving from a dead stop.

-Regenerative charging from engine braking and transmission shifts. This takes some load off of the charging system, which can extend the lifespan of the said system.

-The Belt Start Generator (BSG, eTorque) is liquid cooled, which is more efficient at heat absorption/rejection than a traditional air-cooled alternator, so that can also extend the lifespan of that motor/charging system.

-The BSG helps the transmission to make smoother and quicker upshifts. It does this by brake pulsing the crankshaft to pull engine rpms down to the optimal shift point. A default benefit of this, is that the transmissions clutch packs aren't doing that solely on their own. Less clutch wear = less oil contamination = less abrasives eroding internal hard parts = increased potential longevity.

-Higher voltage = lower amperage = lower heat load in a given circuit. This lays a great foundation for being able to tap into the 48v. An example being the added accessories used in camping and other extended off grid adventures.
It’s extra torque off road too.
This is good information if its all true and accurate. I've not seen this before. If this is accurate, then Jeep marketing is definetly failing big time. The most I've ever heard about added torque is 1/2 a tire rotation. I'll have to ponder over all these points and look into them more. I'd still rather not have any type of start/stop or eTorque system, but if these advantages hold true, it may not be something that needs to be avoided at all cost. Thanks for posting.
 

GATORB8

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That’s not how it works though. It’s a tax credit. You get it back from the IRS when filing your taxes. I don’t see any way the Germans can step in to take your tax refund, but those Germans have done some pretty rough stuff in the past...
In leasing the bank owns the title, so they get the tax credit. CCAP passes this on by reducing the price of the vehicle.
 

Headbarcode

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The 6 speed option may not be a bad choice. I have considered going that route to avoid the eTorque. I've just heard such good things about the 8speed auto and my knees get worse as I get older. So I was looking at the auto. Revieing the comments quoted below, maybe the auto is still an option.





This is good information if its all true and accurate. I've not seen this before. If this is accurate, then Jeep marketing is definetly failing big time. The most I've ever heard about added torque is 1/2 a tire rotation. I'll have to ponder over all these points and look into them more. I'd still rather not have any type of start/stop or eTorque system, but if these advantages hold true, it may not be something that needs to be avoided at all cost. Thanks for posting.
Yeah, it has zero to do with wheel rotation count. The eTorque system provides a near instant delivery of 70 or 90 lb/ft of torque right off idle and cuts off at about 1500 rpm. It's not a long event, as it's only to supplement the higher initial load required to get going from a dead stop.

It's really not a very complicated and scary system. The liquid-cooled 48v lithium ion battery pack stores a charge, similar to a capacitor tower in a larger car stereo system. As needed, the pack sends a discharge of electrical energy to the BSG motor, like the capacitor does when the subwoofer thumps. The BSG uses that capacitive discharge to transmit torque through the sepertine belt to the crankshaft. Having that pool of stored energy is dual beneficial. It can be tapped into without shock loading the charging system, while also providing a bigger oomph than the charging system can feed on its own. Exact same thing as adding a storage tank to an on board air compressor to run a pneumatic impact driver.

Hope that was coherent. I'm running on next to no sleep and the coffee mug is still half full. 😆

giphy (20).gif
 
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Fargo

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Yeah, it has zero to do with wheel rotation count. The eTorque system provides a near instant delivery of 70 or 90 lb/ft of torque right off idle and cuts off at about 1500 rpm. It's not a long event, as it's only to supplement the higher initial load required to get going from a dead stop.

It's really not a very complicated and scary system. The liquid-cooled 48v lithium ion battery pack stores a charge, similar to a capacitor tower in a larger car stereo system. As needed, the pack sends a discharge of electrical energy to the BSG motor, like the capacitor does when the subwoofer thumps. The BSG uses that capacitive discharge to transmit torque through the sepertine belt to the crankshaft. Having that pool of stored energy is dual beneficial. It can be tapped into without shock loading the charging system, while also providing a bigger oomph than the charging system can feed on its own. Exact same thing as adding a storage tank to an on board air compressor to run a pneumatic impact driver.

Hope that was coherent. I'm running on next to no sleep and the coffee mug is still half full. 😆

giphy (20).gif
That was a great analogy. As someone who built a couple car stereo systems in the 90's, I am familiar with the use of capacitors to help power subs. (Although I never used one.) But I get what you are saying. Thanks.
 

Jeepnutz

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Yeah, it has zero to do with wheel rotation count. The eTorque system provides a near instant delivery of 70 or 90 lb/ft of torque right off idle and cuts off at about 1500 rpm. It's not a long event, as it's only to supplement the higher initial load required to get going from a dead stop.

It's really not a very complicated and scary system. The liquid-cooled 48v lithium ion battery pack stores a charge, similar to a capacitor tower in a larger car stereo system. As needed, the pack sends a discharge of electrical energy to the BSG motor, like the capacitor does when the subwoofer thumps. The BSG uses that capacitive discharge to transmit torque through the sepertine belt to the crankshaft. Having that pool of stored energy is dual beneficial. It can be tapped into without shock loading the charging system, while also providing a bigger oomph than the charging system can feed on its own. Exact same thing as adding a storage tank to an on board air compressor to run a pneumatic impact driver.

Hope that was coherent. I'm running on next to no sleep and the coffee mug is still half full. 😆

giphy (20).gif
Those torque numbers were proven false a while ago and Jeep deleted that torque claim from E torque ads. Typical FCA propaganda.
 
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Fargo

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Those torque numbers were proven false a while ago and Jeep deleted that torque claim from E torque ads. Typical FCA propaganda.
Thanks for the clarification. It would seem then that eTorque is pretty much just an expensive and complicated start/stop feature then.
 

GATORB8

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Thanks for the clarification. It would seem then that eTorque is pretty much just an expensive and complicated start/stop feature then.
Yup pretty much, although it seems to also be better than standard ESS.

I wouldn't pay for it, but I did go ahead and add it to my 22 Ram order since there's no cost difference in the 5.7 with or without it.
 

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@Headbarcode I'm not sure about the 1500 rpm thing. Isn't the stall speed of the converter higher than 1500? That would mean it would stop helping before the converter hits. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand and that part doesn't make sense to me so I'm wondering. If it worked off wheel speed (the half rotation) that would make more sense with a converter.
 
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