Why the 2.0T?

[IdahoJOAT]

Locomotives are electric vehicles that have a diesel generator.

Cruise ships are the same.

It seems to me that these huge industries that rely on maximum efficiency have figured out the most efficient way to burn fuel and generate electricity and that's with a diesel generator making the power and the vehicle consuming said power...

So why is the 4xe using a petrol engine? Why are any of them using petrol?

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[jhackathorne]

It was readily available to use and Jeep decided to do use it.

 

[driventoadventure]

First for simplicity, second for size/room.

To simplicity - here in NA there are as many people who don't even know that Diesel isn't the same as Gasoline as there are people who don't even know it exists. The predominance of Gasoline is so significant that from a warranty/cost/benefit perspective, it is simply better to have a high-efficiency gasoline engine than it is to go the efficiency route of using a diesel.

To size - while it is certainly possible to make and install a small 1.x liter displacement diesel engine, the emissions equipment required would still be bulky and take considerable effort to engineer, install and maintain.

(E) Because those concerns don't take place on industrial platforms, they can get away with the difficulty/complexity/cost/etc to go Diesel or Natural Gas for their benefits.

 

[mllcb42]

Locomotives and cruise ships that run diesel generators are essentially series hybrids that run at near constant load for long durations and have an exceptional large capacity for storing fuel.

Passenger vehicles are a completely different use case, where load, rpm, acceleration needs, etc all vary significantly and the vehicles don't often get used at constant velocity/load for long periods of time.

And people probably don't want to drive everywhere listening to a diesel motor under the hood droning on at the same fixed rpm 24/7.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

Locomotives and cruise ships that run diesel generators are essentially series hybrids that run at near constant load for long durations and have an exceptional large capacity for storing fuel.

Passenger vehicles are a completely different use case, where load, rpm, acceleration needs, etc all vary significantly and the vehicles don't often get used at constant velocity/load for long periods of time.

At people probably don't want to drive everywhere listening to a diesel motor under the hood droning on at the same fixed rpm 24/7.

That makes sense. A whole lot actually. I never thought about the constant speed and load.

 

[JL MADDOG]

Another perspective is the 2.0L Turbo engine performance.

Winding that little sucker out close to redline hitting the expressway on-ramp is FUN!!!

I'm not sure a diesel / electric generator would have the same aesthetic appeal. I imagine, though, that the torque would be impressive.

 

[lindaspins]

Given that more and more cities aroud the world are starting to ban diesel, it's probably not a good direction to go right now. The US never picked up on diesel for cars the way Europe did and the time for that has passed.

 

[Zandcwhite]

A hybrid vehicle doesn’t run the ICE engine as a generator, it is used directly for propulsion. In the Jeep application, using the ecodiesel in a 4xe would mean a vehicle pushing 7k lbs. The only onboard generation is done via regenerative braking, not even close to how cruise ships or locomotives operate.

 

[gato]

First the 4xe is not an electric + generator vehicle (like the Chevy Volt was) it is a hybrid vehicle, that often has to rely exclusive on the ICE engine to accelerate.

Second, would you really like to add the additional 400lbs that the diesel lump weighs on top of an already 5,000lbs + 4xe?

So lets see:

You'd have one plug for electricity. One plug for diesel fuel. One plug for DEF fluid.

Do you really think that your typical soccer mom buying a 21st century "electrified vehicle" would put up with having to "fill up" three separate things? One of which is greasy and smelly (diesel), the other one is urine based - LOL.

Never going to happen.

 

[mllcb42]

The 4xe does, occasionally, run as a series hybrid with the ice disconnected from the mechanical drivetrain and the engine only acting as a generator, but it doesn't do that most of the time (primarily at low speeds, while warming up the cats, etc).

 

[mllcb42]

The only onboard generation is done via regenerative braking

This is incorrect. The P1 motor can act as a generator fed directly by the motor in some circumstances.

 

[John VonJeep]

Combine people’s 4xe issues with people’s 3.0 issues?

You’re gonna need more popcorn.

 

[gato]

Combine people’s 4xe issues with people’s 3.0 issues?

You’re gonna need more popcorn.

Exactly. There are two technologies that make sense on a light offroad/adventure vehicle that can't tow more than 3,500 lbs or haul more than 500lbs after the driver and gear.

Pure gasoline engine. Pure electric engine. Diesels and hybrids are dead-end technologies that bring a lot of complexity. Owning these vehicle outside of warranty period will be a nightmare. A diesel hybrid would be an even scarier nightmare.

 

[JT1]

Exactly. There are two technologies that make sense on a light offroad/adventure vehicle that can't tow more than 3,500 lbs or haul more than 500lbs after the driver and gear.

Pure gasoline engine. Pure electric engine. Diesels and hybrids are dead-end technologies that bring a lot of complexity. Owning these vehicle outside of warranty period will be a nightmare. A diesel hybrid would be an even scarier nightmare.

I think you may be looking at it wrong. If you had a small diesel or gas (diesel is more efficient) engine that was designed to run at a specific rpm where it was extremely efficient (and maybe another rpm where it delivered higher output) and can generate enough output to recharge a battery pack that drove electric motors, the drivetrain, hardware and software would be simpler than the current batch of hybrids, and could eliminate the need for infrastructure updates. Transient events in a diesel account for most of the need for the exhaust treatments that we are currently saddled with, and range anxiety disappears.

The generator engine wouldn't need to be more than a liter or 2, and the battery pack wouldn't need to be as large as an all electric vehicle.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I think you may be looking at it wrong. If you had a small diesel or gas (diesel is more efficient) engine that was designed to run at a specific rpm where it was extremely efficient (and maybe another rpm where it delivered higher output) and can generate enough output to recharge a battery pack that drove electric motors, the drivetrain, hardware and software would be simpler than the current batch of hybrids, and could eliminate the need for infrastructure updates. Transient events in a diesel account for most of the need for the exhaust treatments that we are currently saddled with, and range anxiety disappears.

The generator engine wouldn't need to be more than a liter or 2, and the battery pack wouldn't need to be as large as an all electric vehicle.

Sounds good, I wonder why nobody’s building anything like it… The power used to drive a vehicle is the same wether gas, electric, or diesel. You can’t build a generator that will provide enough power to charge the batteries at the same rate they are depleted in an EV that is small enough and light enough to haul around (not to mention the additional fuel for the generator). If it takes 300hp to get the performance you want out of your vehicle, your scenario would require a 300hp electric motor and a 350hp gas generator to keep up with the charging under heavy loads after factoring in losses (generators are not 100% efficient). Unless you are proposing the generator runs at all times, but there’s still no way a small generator keeps up. Efficiency is where electric motors win hands down. No idling, regen on deceleration, etc. Ice engines waste more energy as heat in every operating scenario. We act like they are the gold standard and that simply isn’t true.

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