Which Trim to Purchase

[BuyHold]

I want manual...

If you are going to get a manual I strongly recommend a Rubicon with 4.10s, or better, the 4.88s.

Edit: This was suggested by many others. It is wise recommendation. Also, the manual is supremely fun and anyone who suggests that paddle shifters are a substitute is insulting.

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[helldorado]

I was looking at a Wrangler for my wife as her new DD. After debating cost vs function I went with a nicely optioned Willys. Some packages like the sound and sky package were a lot cheaper than getting the individual options on the Rubicon. She also got the 6 MT and absolutely loves dailying it.

 

[GearWhore]

I'd say Willys or Rubicon. Yes, they both sound like overkill for your use-case, but they are classic "Jeep" and I have also followed the line from XJ through WJ, WK, WK2, and into JKs and now JLs. My JLU-Rubicon is nicer to drive and ride in than all but my '18 WK2. And seems to find traction in 2wd that none of the others could.

Rubicons are certainly a jump over Willys price-wise, but they also come with a lot of upgraded "kit," including higher fenders, e-lockers, e-swaybar. Especially noticeable with the Rubicon will be the 4.10 axle gearing with the manual transmission. Rubicon will also likely hold their value a little better/be more desirable when you decide to sell.

Also, check out the recommended dealers list. You could possibly save the cost difference to a Rubicon if you're willing to order and travel a little to pick it up.

 

[GearWhore]

Also, @MrMike welcome to the forum and Jeep community!

 

[MrMike]

Both of my Rubicons have been manual. Clutch isn’t the greatest, had better. But it’s not unlivable and should last a few years with normal usage (daily driving, occasional mild off road adventures). I will say, definitely upgrade to the 4.88s from the factory. I had 4.10s on the 21 and 4.88s on the 23. I wouldn’t order with out if buying a manual.

I have both the manual and the auto. I heavily prefer my manual. With that being said, the manual is on 4.88s on 2dr. The largest issue I see with the manual is the gearing, which seems to cause most of the issues. Some people love it or hate it regardless, but I would suggest you drive a Sport geared Jeep with the manual. You will need to make your own assessment on whether or not it feels correct for you. If you have the chance, try it with the 4.10s on the Rubi, or the 4.88s, if you can. My wife has the Sport Altitude and it will cover your needs, but my reservation would be the gearing with the manual.

The number of people bringing this up is interesting.

Considering you both have 4.88s, do either of you feel the 4.88s are absolutely essential over the 4.10s with the stock tire size? I have no reason to go larger and I want A/T tires.

I'll run the numbers on a Rubicon build I'd be happy with but I have a max OTD number in my head, as does everyone when making a vehicle purchase, and Wranglers are a little expensive in 2023. It would likely require me to axe an option to get a 4.88 Rubicon.

 

[MrMike]

I'd say Willys or Rubicon. Yes, they both sound like overkill for your use-case, but they are classic "Jeep" and I have also followed the line from XJ through WJ, WK, WK2, and into JKs and now JLs. My JLU-Rubicon is nicer to drive and ride in than all but my '18 WK2. And seems to find traction in 2wd that none of the others could.

Rubicons are certainly a jump over Willys price-wise, but they also come with a lot of upgraded "kit," including higher fenders, e-lockers, e-swaybar. Especially noticeable with the Rubicon will be the 4.10 axle gearing with the manual transmission. Rubicon will also likely hold their value a little better/be more desirable when you decide to sell.

Also, check out the recommended dealers list. You could possibly save the cost difference to a Rubicon if you're willing to order and travel a little to pick it up.

My current plan is to keep this Wrangler for a long, long time. Ideally 10-15 years.

I actually posted in that thread asking about SE PA/NJ dealers. I'm currently targeting 3% under invoice at Chapman because it's an easy hour drive. I'd rather pay a bit more than have to travel and that dealer has done well for me in the past.

 

[Cutterone]

Yes Rubicon with 4:10 which is another Plus Check Box for buying Rubicon. Never drove the Sport with it so good point on that and gears.

Whichever engineers authorized the 3.45 with the 6sp and its wide spacing should be up for internal review! I'm sure if was a simplification/cost-cutting measure, but the 6sp should have at least 3.73 standard, or better yet 4.10, but then they can't upsell ya to the Rubi! I did the CF2 clutch but am only going to a 275-70-18 (33.3) on my Sahara so I'll live with the 3.45, its just a 5 sp now. Not a big deal for me seeing as its not on highway much, back roads to work only top out at 45-50 so she only sees 4th daily, 5th if she gets up to at least 65 highway...

 

[BuyHold]

Considering you both have 4.88s, do either of you feel the 4.88s are absolutely essential over the 4.10s with the stock tire size? I have no reason to go larger and I want A/T tires.

If you read enough posts here and on Jeepgladiatorforum.com, the satisfaction score with the MT is strongly correlated with diff gear ratios. High ratio means higher satisfaction. So much of that has to do with the useability of 6th gear with taller gears (i.e. not super useable on gears <4.10 unless going 80mph or faster) and the speed of reverse (be prepared to feather the clutch a lot, even with 4.10s).

It is a tragedy that Jeep produces any MTs with anything less than 4.10. 4.10 should be on EVERY base model sport and willys 6sp MTs. At least 4.56s on Rubicons. 4.88s are THE option to buy on Rubicons without question. True, 4.88s with 33s are a little aggressive but that this is where many MT drivers yearn to be and the "reviews" on this forum support that.

 

[SH556JL]

The number of people bringing this up is interesting.

Considering you both have 4.88s, do either of you feel the 4.88s are absolutely essential over the 4.10s with the stock tire size? I have no reason to go larger and I want A/T tires.

I'll run the numbers on a Rubicon build I'd be happy with but I have a max OTD number in my head, as does everyone when making a vehicle purchase, and Wranglers are a little expensive in 2023. It would likely require me to axe an option to get a 4.88 Rubicon.

I feel it does and I have no intention of upgrading my tires on the 23 either. 4.10s are tolerable on stock tires and gets into the suck territory with 315s. 4.88s on stock tires is very nice around town and on the interstate makes 6th gear actually useful more often. I think with 315s it would be perfect with 4.88s. I however don’t want the expense and my grandmother can barely get in the thing as is (even with the Mopar performance rock rails). Reverse is also a lot easier with 4.88s, it’s horrible on 4.10s.

Both of my Jeeps have been 2 doors and I think with a heavier 4 door the difference would be more noticeable.

The only negative is you’re pushing 2,900 RPMs at 77 mph with stock tires and 4.88s. Great from a performance perspective, not the best for economy. I dropped down to 70 at about 2,500 RPMs.

Both of my Jeeps have been 2 door JLR manuals. I think with auto, 4.88s aren’t necessary with stock tires… I have plenty of time behind a JLU Sahara with 2.0 and 3.45 and a Gladiator Rubicon with 4.10s; both where automatics while I waited for the 23 to be delivered.

 

[BuyHold]

Whichever engineers authorized the 3.45 with the 6sp and its wide spacing should be up for internal review!

Auto makers have tough jobs regarding cost control. It is fair to expect that to be one of the most important part of design. The 3.45 decision, however, in MTs was made by an <excuse the French> a gaggle of dunces. I am sorry but it was idiotic regarding functionality and usability of the vehicle.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

The number of people bringing this up is interesting.

Considering you both have 4.88s, do either of you feel the 4.88s are absolutely essential over the 4.10s with the stock tire size? I have no reason to go larger and I want A/T tires.

I'll run the numbers on a Rubicon build I'd be happy with but I have a max OTD number in my head, as does everyone when making a vehicle purchase, and Wranglers are a little expensive in 2023. It would likely require me to axe an option to get a 4.88 Rubicon.

Perusing the manual threads makes me think that the 4door exacerbates the gearing issues. I only have driven the 4.10s during a test drive and have no experience with stock gearing. I ordered the 4.88s during the first week they were available and was very anxious about how they would be on stock tires (Rubi stock). I have been very happy with that choice. I drive in nothing but hills in an area where driving over the speed limit will often send you off the side of a mountain. Honestly, only a test drive will let you know. I like that my Jeep drives like a tractor. If you are set on the manual, better safe than sorry with the gearing.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Buying a Rubicon and not using the equipment, means you are paying for stuff you are not going to use, and worse those equipment are expensive to fix when they fail.

 

[Xcoaste]

Buy whatever you can afford. They all will do what you want. Enjoy it!

 

[Whaler27]

Hey guys,

I’m looking to order a Wrangler.

I am leaning towards 4-door because I used to have a 96 4.0L Cherokee Sport and I feel like a 4-door Wrangler is it’s spiritual successor. I already have a 2-door car and will be keeping it.

I will be doing very minor off-road driving. Dirt roads and very basic trails. No rocks. I will be driving the Wrangler anytime there is snow. This will be a daily driver in the winter and when transporting 3-4 people in the summer.

I want manual. I want premium audio/technology groups. I want LED headlights. I want hard top. I do not want leather. I think I want a LSD. I think I want trailer-tow group because those things seem like a pain to add later.

• Is the Sport Altitude essentially a Sahara with the option for a manual and no leather or LED turn signals/markers?
• If I get the LSD on the Sport Altitude, will I get the same rear axle as the Willys and Rubicon?
  • Follow-up, does this mean the remaining mechanical difference between Sport Altitude w/LSD and Willys is just the Rubicon shocks?
• On the Willys, how bad will the OEM mud tires be in the snow/rain? I’m not bothered by road noise.
• I think a Rubicon is overkill, but if I bought a second set of tires/wheels for the Willys, I’d be most of the way to a Rubicon already. How dumb would it be to pick up a Rubicon for my usage?
  • Is the added weight of the Rubicon noticeable compared to the others in daily driving?

Thanks in advance

There was a time when Sahara and Rubicon trim levels came with larger brakes. I don’t know if that’s true today, but I would inquire, because even the bigger wrangler brakes aren’t great. They are okay (and much better than old CJs and wranglers), and they are fine if you drive appropriately and don’t modify the Jeep with bigger tires and a bunch of added weight, but I wouldn’t want anything less than the brakes that came on my Rubicon. (I upgraded my brakes to the Alcons, but that’s a large and unnecessary expense if you can get the best factory option.)

 

[MrMike]

There was a time when Sahara and Rubicon trim levels came with larger brakes. I don’t know if that’s true today, but I would inquire, because even the bigger wrangler brakes aren’t great. They are okay (and much better than old CJs and wranglers), and they are fine if you drive appropriately and don’t modify the Jeep with bigger tires and a bunch of added weight, but I wouldn’t want anything less than the brakes that came on my Rubicon. (I upgraded my brakes to the Alcons, but that’s a large and unnecessary expense if you can get the best factory option.)

I read about this in another thread! There's 3 tiers of brakes now: base, heavy duty, and performance. Heavy Duty = Rubicon, Willys, Sahara. Performance = Xtreme Recon.

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