Which JL engine are you most interested in?

[The Great Grape Ape]

Who in their right mind would buy a JK that gest such bad MPG when the JL can be bought also.

You don't cripple a new decade long vehicle lineup to support less than a 1/3 of a year of an obsolete line, that you were only making to keep production going while everyone waited for the new vehicle so that there wasn't a months long gap of 'No Wranglers' between them.

Also demand for the JL will be multiple times more than available vehicles for the first few months while production slowly ramps up, the whole time there are still JKs on the lot for people who can't wait or don't have hat luxury, so there is little fear of there being 'too many JLs out there' hurting JK sales..

Maybe the JK's will be priced less, there's not a lot of pricing info. available yet.

Don't even need pricing info on the JL, simply based on the past multiple years of Wranglers with lottle/no differences, the previous year model will get tons of incentives once there is any question of them sitting on the lot. I got almost $10K off the Aspen-X because it was not a brand new custom order like I usually do (because they stopped spraying Baja months earleir).

Again if Jeep is being forced to sell the JK and JL together because of retooling at Toledo, it doesn't make much sense that one model would blow away the other in terms of MPGS

Sure it does, especially since the JL's annual production capacity is supposed to be significantly higher than the previous JK's, so you need to generate more demand for the new vehicle over a much longer period of time than the outgoing vehicle which was previously produced using overtime.
Simply put, you concern yourself with the next success of he next 2 million+ vehicles (or 250K+/year) not worry about the ~40K final vehicles that you make while closing down production, those are essentially gravy.

Also, the smart thing for FCA to do is to make those last few vehicles the ones with the highest margins to allow for the most painless deepest cuts to get them off the lots should they still be there by next spring.

All I'm saying is from Jeep's past record I don't see the MPG's jumping all that much, but I hope they do nevertheless.

What are your guesses as to the JL's 3 power train options in terms of MPGs?

I don't see MPG jumping stratospherically in the JL either (though prtrol JK to diesel JL might be quite significant), but it has less to do with concerns regarding sales of the JK than it has to do with physics and 'Wrangler-esque' requirements that keep it from being a Prius.

As I've stated before in this thread and others, the 2 main options (Penta/Eco) will do worse than in the GrandCherokee and likely see about 25/30 MPG +/- , the Hurricane will probably over-promise and under-deliver soemewhere in between the two simply because it will likely need to be on boost to make the HP required for the highway.
The principle barrier to efficiency is not the threat to the JK, but the fact that the JL keeps the same boxy shape with a slight bit more rake, the same solid axles, old drive train design, and hasn't made any significant efforts at weight reduction. All of that means that the only slightly more aerodynamic brick still needs about 90-something percent of the energy to continue to push through the wind at highway speed.

Sponsored

 

[orey22]

After all that, if Jeep release a Wrangler that gets greater than 25 MPG on the highway, I'll agree it's a major powertrain change from the JK and will make the JK seem much less desirable than the JL. Otherwise we agree to disagree.

 

[TraderNTrucker]

Jeep won't mind competing with itself as long as they walk out the door with either a JK or JL.The 2018 will go out with a few last hurrah packages and if needed they will discount it easily due to the high margins.

Let's face it MPG isn't generally the first thing people compare when shopping for Jeeps and even if the JL doesn't get a 25-30 mpg rating it will still blow away the JK in terms of a lot of other things and make it look instantly "last generation"

 

[Superwinch]

@The Great Grape Ape makes a good point. The JL and JK will only be produced and sold simultaneously for 5 months. I doubt they'll nerf the JL specs just to keep it close to the JK's. The JL will need to have competitive specs for the next 10 years of its life afterall.

 

[Swanky]

@The Great Grape Ape makes a good point. The JL and JK will only be produced and sold simultaneously for 5 months. I doubt they'll nerf the JL specs just to keep it close to the JK's. The JL will need to have competitive specs for the next 10 years of its life afterall.

less than that i would say since they will likely only start delivering Jl's in December and the JK will only go till early march, so really only 3 ish months of overlap.

 

[Superwinch]

less than that i would say since they will likely only start delivering Jl's in December and the JK will only go till early march, so really only 3 ish months of overlap.

According to this sticky JK stops production March 30, 2018. That means there'll still be JK's being delivered to dealers as late as mid-April. And figure they'll still available on dealer lots for a few days/weeks after arriving.

That's how I figured about 5 months of "available at dealers" sales overlap with JL -- from December 2017 to May 2018.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

According to this sticky JK stops production March 30, 2018. That means there'll still be JK's being delivered to dealers as late as mid-April. And figure they'll still available on dealer lots for a few days/weeks after arriving.

That's how I figured about 5 months of "available at dealers" sales overlap with JL -- from December 2017 to May 2018.

However, whatever the delivery lead time frame for the JKs will be the same for the JLs if not more, so it's a wash on that aspect. If anythng you can bet that the first allocation of production of JLs will be for peope with orders pending, so for the general public's perspective it'll be even less that the interval.
Also expect JK productin to mirror Cherokee production, slowly winding down in the last week(s) until on the last day they all follow a single JK along the line having celebrations and taking photos. Which means, that that ~4.5 months (incuding short Feb) of overlap if you start with the first JL Nov 13 date is a little less than that... or about 1/3 of a year's inventory.

But realistically there will be JKs on lots for months and months (multiple quarters even) after production ceases, but by then it's all sunken cost, so really it's in the dealers hands as to what to do, and no longer FCAs concern.

A lot of those final order will be dependsnt on the dealer's guage of the reception of the JL, if they think the JL's a hit, likely JK orders will dry up to a trickle and just basic allotment will be taken. If they think the JL is mediocre or a dissapointmrnt, then there will likely be a lot of JK order to meet possible backlash or end-of-line orders.

It's all relative, but there's no way that FCA is focusing on the JK to the detriment of the JL. Even if it's a unexpected flop, the solution is not to keep making JKs, it's to hurry a JL refresh and to make sure the JT is right, the later being more imporant than extendjng the JK, even for Wranglers fans. The sooner they can roll up the JK line and get the JTs up and running the better for everyone.

 

[Billy]

However, whatever the delivery lead time frame for the JKs will be the same for the JLs if not more, so it's a wash on that aspect. If anythng you can bet that the first allocation of production of JLs will be for peope with orders pending, so for the general public's perspective it'll be even less that the interval.
Also expect JK productin to mirror Cherokee production, slowly winding down in the last week(s) until on the last day they all follow a single JK along the line having celebrations and taking photos. Which means, that that ~4.5 months (incuding short Feb) of overlap if you start with the first JL Nov 13 date is a little less than that... or about 1/3 of a year's inventory.

But realistically there will be JKs on lots for months and months (multiple quarters even) after production ceases, but by then it's all sunken cost, so really it's in the dealers hands as to what to do, and no longer FCAs concern.

A lot of those final order will be dependsnt on the dealer's guage of the reception of the JL, if they think the JL's a hit, likely JK orders will dry up to a trickle and just basic allotment will be taken. If they think the JL is mediocre or a dissapointmrnt, then there will likely be a lot of JK order to meet possible backlash or end-of-line orders.

It's all relative, but there's no way that FCA is focusing on the JK to the detriment of the JL. Even if it's a unexpected flop, the solution is not to keep making JKs, it's to hurry a JL refresh and to make sure the JT is right, the later being more imporant than extendjng the JK, even for Wranglers fans. The sooner they can roll up the JK line and get the JTs up and running the better for everyone.

Not discussed here is international demand. One of the main reasons for FCA increasing output is to supply the ever-increasing demand outside the US of A. I'd be willing to bet the JL sees limited export until domestic demand levels here, so new markets will be the main demand for the '18 JK.

 

[N.Stark]

Not discussed here is international demand. One of the main reasons for FCA increasing output is to supply the ever-increasing demand outside the US of A. I'd be willing to bet the JL sees limited export until domestic demand levels here, so new markets will be the main demand for the '18 JK.

Is the 2018 JK being sold abroad alongside the JL? doesn't that add up to more certification and costs to get essentially two different models approved. They would really help their sales overseas if they brought that diesel asap.

 

[Billy]

Is the 2018 JK being sold abroad alongside the JL? doesn't that add up to more certification and costs to get essentially two different models approved. They would really help their sales overseas if they brought that diesel asap.

I think so. And the current JK is exported with the 2.8 CRD...

 

[Taimaishu]

IMO they should make the 2018 a full year final run of the JK and start the JL with 2019 along with the pickup (it helps those of us that might actually decide between the JLU or pickup). It also gives them more time to retool and possibly release it with the diesel right out the gate.

 

[WXman]

Now that reports are saying the Pentastar in the JL will NOT have direct fuel injection, I'm switching my vote to the 3.6L V6. That'll be my choice.

The other options will make more torque, but there's something to be said for reliability.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

I think so. And the current JK is exported with the 2.8 CRD...

Also that 2.8L CRD will likely be dropped from 2018 model when it no longer meets new Euro 6 requirements and the exemption expires (when implemented in 2015 it allowed for a transition period).
Thanks to VW and FCA's diesel issues, starting Sept 1st 2017 they will be switching to more real world Real Driving Emissions (RDE) testing which the existing Wrangler diesel is not expected to pass.

So I wouldn't expect any of the production overlap to see CRDs in them for Europe, but maybe for Australia, South Africa, and SE Asia / Pacific to get rid of whatever CRDs they have left.

 

[MrDinkMan]

Now that reports are saying the Pentastar in the JL will NOT have direct fuel injection, I'm switching my vote to the 3.6L V6. That'll be my choice.

The other options will make more torque, but there's something to be said for reliability.

Surprised they skipped DI since they're going for better fuel economy. Would have helped power output too.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Surprised they skipped DI since they're going for better fuel economy. Would have helped power output too.

DI benefits on their own are minimal (fuel efficiency gains would greatly outpaced by additional fuel cost), while the drawbacks of DI are quite large, especially for a Wrangler. A hybrid system like Audi's or Toyota's D-4S would be a better fitting system incorporating the best of direct & port injection.
The increase in particulate pollution also is a problem now that Europe and the rest of the world are moving to real world testing which has shown from 3 to 12 times increase in particulate pollution from DI versus PFI.

They will be adding variable valve lift and EGR as in the Grand Cherokee, which will offer improvements that Wrangler owners want, like earlier torque delivery as well as a bit more torque.

Without the move to forced air, DI isn't really needed right now and offers more drawbacks than benefits.

http://articles.sae.org/14322/

Sponsored