Use glow plugs at every start?

[BDinTX]

It's almost like we they've designed it explicitly so we don't have think about it?

Exactly. Corporations have learned that when people “think” they pick up the lawn mower by the blade guard to trim the hedges. Or lean their metal ladder against a power line.

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[Deleted User 38384]

you don’t need to do any of the this. The glow plug activation that happens when you start the vehicle is more than enough. Modern day for 6.7s start almost instantly after the button press. These aren’t the glow plug systems of the “wait to start” years.

While I do agree, modern diesels aren't that much different from the old ones. Still same general components.

The last two times I tried to activate the glow plugs, it wasn't until I went to actually press the brake pedal and start the engine that it decided to say "Wait to start", so it does in fact initiate the glow plugs, just at this moment I can't figure out how to actually activate them when I want them to activate.

Probably poke around the ram forums a little bit. They seem to be a little more in tune with their engines than we are over here.

 

[driventoadventure]

While I do agree, modern diesels aren't that much different from the old ones. Still same general components.

Modern Diesels are hugely different from older Diesels. Things like pulsed injection and multiple injection cycles, higher compression, forced induction, electrically moderated fuel injection, etc - modern diesels are mainly only similar to older diesels in that they still rely on compression ignition...

 

[Skyvet]

For anyone who doesn't know, to get the glow plugs started on our EcoDiesels Wranglers, You need to put the vehicle in run, without the engine on and you'll see that little twisted rope icon pop up on the dash which will let you know that the glow plugs are getting power.

First start of the day I always wait to see if the engine decides it needs the glow plugs to run. After that, depending on time frame, they usually don't

 

[Chris A]

I have had a few diesels. The 3.0 in the Jeep doesn’t wait nearly as long as the old 7.3 I had in my Ford. The Jeep is done for you. 1 time in the last year it actually waited to start when it was extremely cold in Dallas I believe like 20 degrees. The biggest problem here seems fuel is not winterized so if you don’t add a treatment I have had problems. I also added a block heater. Not technically needed here but quieter and faster warm ups

 

[ALeeL]

The biggest problem here seems fuel is not winterized so if you don’t add a treatment I have had problems. I also added a block heater. Not technically needed here but quieter and faster warm ups

I agree. Non-winterized or gelling diesel fuel is the biggest problem in the winter. I know my Cummins has a fuel heater in the secondary fuel filter housing located in the engine bay. Came stock that way. I wonder why they didn't do the same with the Ecodiesel.

The other problem with diesels starting is the oil. Conventional 15W40 is very thick when it is cold, especially oil that has a few thousand miles on it. Add the resistance of cold thick oil, the high compression ratio of a diesel and the diesel fuel gelling, one can see why it is hard to get the crankshaft rotating in colder temps . Being that the Ecodiesel requires 5W-40, the oil is not nearly as thick as the 15W-40 of the older and/or larger diesels.

 

[PeCoasta]

I agree. Non-winterized or gelling diesel fuel is the biggest problem in the winter. I know my Cummins has a fuel heater in the secondary fuel filter housing located in the engine bay. Came stock that way. I wonder why they didn't do the same with the Ecodiesel.

The other problem with diesels starting is the oil. Conventional 15W40 is very thick when it is cold, especially oil that has a few thousand miles on it. Add the resistance of cold thick oil, the high compression ratio of a diesel and the diesel fuel gelling, one can see why it is hard to get the crankshaft rotating in colder temps . Being that the Ecodiesel requires 5W-40, the oil is not nearly as thick as the 15W-40 of the older and/or larger diesels.

AFAIK theres no secondary fuel filter in the engine bay for the ecodiesel. But the frame mounted fuel filter by the fuel tank does have a heating element.

 

[ALeeL]

AFAIK theres no secondary fuel filter in the engine bay for the ecodiesel. But the frame mounted fuel filter by the fuel tank does have a heating element.

Yeah, I was wondering why they didn't put one there on the Ecodiesel as well. Although the secondary filter on my Cummins goes on all 6.7L engines regardless of what vehicle they put them in. They are in the buses and medium duty trucks we sell at work. In some applications, it is the only fuel filter.

 

[gsbrockman]

Yeah, I was wondering why they didn't put one there on the Ecodiesel as well. Although the secondary filter on my Cummins goes on all 6.7L engines regardless of what vehicle they put them in.

I would agree, especially since the 6.7L and 3.0L are both HPCR and both can benefit from the additional filtration.

My 2014 RAM 3500 had zero fuel system issues through 362k miles when I sold it. My 2018 RAM 4500 had zero fuel system issues through 473k miles when I sold it. 47,344 gallons and $134,463.80 of fuel went through it….My current 2022 RAM 5500 has zero fuel system issues through 282k miles; 24,462 gallons and $90,181.08 of fuel has went through it so far. Maintenance by the book, and no Amazon or eBay counterfeit filters keeps a fuel system happy.

 

[driventoadventure]

I wonder if the omission of the secondary filter is why the CP4 seems to be so much worse on the EcoDiesel than it is on the Cummins'? Or is that just a matter of perception?

 

[Deleted User 38384]

I wonder if the omission of the secondary filter is why the CP4 seems to be so much worse on the EcoDiesel than it is on the Cummins'? Or is that just a matter of perception?

When I first was reading up on the CP4.2, I would commonly find people on different truck forums, asking about it after initially purchasing a Ford or a Ram pickup truck and people saying you can switch back to a CP3, and the common response was just to do the switch.

I mean if you look at the numbers, percentage-wise about the same number of people have had grenaded CP4.2s between different engine types. My personal opinion is Jeep guys don't mess with their engine too much. I mean I only know of one guy on this whole forum who has switched his CP4.2 for a CPX. I mention it all the time, and everyone seems to be okay with either trusting the manufacturer with their bullshit replacement, or accepting that if it grenades, it grenades.

I think truck people are just built different. I mean anytime I need any information on the EcoDiesel engine, I usually start at the RAM forums, because there's not that much information over here about our engines. A lot of it is either speculation or my questions get met with questions. But you go to the RAM forums and you usually find an answer pretty quick without even being a member.

I mean just look at this thread, all the people with all the good information are referencing their diesel pickup trucks, whom have knowledge of different engines, alongside experience with diesel truck engines.


More on topic, I've posted a few videos on my YouTube channel, video shorts, of me starting the engine when it was cool (I mean 30s ain't that cold) and I can't seem to tell a difference in starts. It seems to matter more how long it's been since my last start whether it's rough start or not. I started the Jeep last night when it was 54° outside and it was probably the roughest start I've had all week. It seems to just be whatever. I am also having trouble getting the glow plugs to initiate, whereas in the past when I was using the RFID chip to start my Jeep everyday instead of the key fob, I could get the glow plugs to start almost every time. I don't know, I'm going to keep playing with it until I can figure out how to get the glow plugs started every time I want them to start.

 

[gsbrockman]

I wonder if the omission of the secondary filter is why the CP4 seems to be so much worse on the EcoDiesel than it is on the Cummins'? Or is that just a matter of perception?

Well….RAM / Cummins only used the CP4 on 2019 & 2020 engines. Failures were high enough that Cummins offered a no-charge CP3 swap, a lot for customer satisfaction, and a lot for preventing a black eye on the Cummins reputation.

Based on what I’ve read and seen….the CP4 is not as good of a design , and it likes clean fuel….realllllly clean fuel.

 

[driventoadventure]

Well….RAM / Cummins only used the CP4 on 2019 & 2020 engines. Failures were high enough that Cummins offered a no-charge CP3 swap, a lot for customer satisfaction, and a lot for preventing a black eye on the Cummins reputation.

Based on what I’ve read and seen….the CP4 is not as good of a design , and it likes clean fuel….realllllly clean fuel.

Ahh, that explains why I haven't had to deal with it on the 2014 6.7L I deal with. Also, that's good to know on what years to avoid as I look to get a new truck.

 

[driventoadventure]

When I first was reading up on the CP4.2, I would commonly find people on different truck forums, asking about it after initially purchasing a Ford or a Ram pickup truck and people saying you can switch back to a CP3, and the common response was just to do the switch.

I mean if you look at the numbers, percentage-wise about the same number of people have had grenaded CP4.2s between different engine types. My personal opinion is Jeep guys don't mess with their engine too much. I mean I only know of one guy on this whole forum who has switched his CP4.2 for a CPX. I mention it all the time, and everyone seems to be okay with either trusting the manufacturer with their bullshit replacement, or accepting that if it grenades, it grenades.

I think truck people are just built different. I mean anytime I need any information on the EcoDiesel engine, I usually start at the RAM forums, because there's not that much information over here about our engines. A lot of it is either speculation or my questions get met with questions. But you go to the RAM forums and you usually find an answer pretty quick without even being a member.

I mean just look at this thread, all the people with all the good information are referencing their diesel pickup trucks, whom have knowledge of different engines, alongside experience with diesel truck engines.


More on topic, I've posted a few videos on my YouTube channel, video shorts, of me starting the engine when it was cool (I mean 30s ain't that cold) and I can't seem to tell a difference in starts. It seems to matter more how long it's been since my last start whether it's rough start or not. I started the Jeep last night when it was 54° outside and it was probably the roughest start I've had all week. It seems to just be whatever. I am also having trouble getting the glow plugs to initiate, whereas in the past when I was using the RFID chip to start my Jeep everyday instead of the key fob, I could get the glow plugs to start almost every time. I don't know, I'm going to keep playing with it until I can figure out how to get the glow plugs started every time I want them to start.

I'm also guilty of having most of my diesels in trucks - an old merc 300td being the only other non-truck diesel I have personally owned.

To your rough start, that's incredibly unusal... Just now I was able to single-crank start mine in my garage which is only warmed to 50°f. It's running smooth warming up in the 26°f outside. I seem to only have roughness when starting it cold from tempeatures at or below single-digits F. But our fuel is winterized here - not that it should make a difference above the 20s(f) since gelling begins in the low teens F.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

I'm also guilty of having most of my diesels in trucks - an old merc 300td being the only other non-truck diesel I have personally owned.

To your rough start, that's incredibly unusal... Just now I was able to single-crank start mine in my garage which is only warmed to 50°f. It's running smooth warming up in the 26°f outside. I seem to only have roughness when starting it cold from tempeatures at or below single-digits F. But our fuel is winterized here - not that it should make a difference above the 20s(f) since gelling begins in the low teens F.

Any chance you can upload a short video of one of your starts one morning?


What I'm considering rough might just be normal for diesels. I never hang out with anyone else with an EcoDiesel so I don't really have anything to compare it to.

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