Turtleback Expedition and JLU Towing Capacity?

[BosOV]

Nice looking setup! How much does your trailer weigh packed? And what kind of lift do you have (at least it sure looks like you have one...)?

The trailer is listed at 1700 dry, I’m traveling at about 2200. The lift is 2”

Sponsored

 

[alksion]

The trailer is listed at 1700 dry, I’m traveling at about 2200. The lift is 2”

Not bad I should be right around 2600-2700lbs. How does it feel towing off road?

 

[BosOV]

What engine?

3.6

 

[BosOV]

Not bad I should be right around 2600-2700lbs. How does it feel towing off road?

it pulls really well. Depending on the trail you need to be a little cautious but then you would have to with any trailer

 

[NCJL]

Minimum we wanted a sink, stove, lots of storage compartments (got 2 kids) awning, electrical, anex with place for anex storage (if possible) and of course a place for a RTT. Also we don’t want a tear drop or anything that sleeps folks - doesn’t make sense for us.
Off the grid came close. But I saw no options for awning, electrical takes up volume in the pass-through and there is no nose box. Fewer storage compartments also, and TB has the pantry in the kitchen which my wife loved.
Because of the lack of storage I didn’t pursue them further. I also don’t know if we could fit a massive RTT on it. We’ve got the two ladder version from 23zero on our order. TB hit all those check marks. Patriot did too, but my wife didn’t like their pantry setup and I didn’t like their lack of stabilizers to reduce sway and the lead times are over a year.

Having a moment.
The only thing that matters is “got 2 kids” “my wife”
Family, spending time together and enjoying life.
The only question that needs to be asked is this.
Ask TB if they use wheel spacers on their trailer builds. The answer will be yes. Ask them if wheel spacers are DOT approved. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have derated the axle due to wheel spacers. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have approval from the axle wheel hub manufacturer to use wheel spacers without de rating the axle. The answer will be no.
If they say yes to any of these questions get it in writing.
I asked TB all of these questions. They would not provide any DOT certification or axle wheel hub manufacturer certification.

Does not matter if your particular trailer is getting wheel spacers are not.
My trailer had 2” wheel spacers. TB wanted to increase to 3” wheel spacers to stop tire from rubbing the inner fender.
When I picked up my trailer I saw a trailer with the ICON suspension with wheel spacers installed. I also saw a dedicated shelf in the assembly area with many variations of wheel spacers.
When picking up the trailer I questioned the closeness of tire to frame and wheel spacers. TB told me without hesitation or concern that this is what they do, building 15 trailers a month with only one failure.
This manufacturing process is life threatening! It applies to everything they do.
I truly hope they have made changes. I will never be able to recommend a TB product. I can only share my experience with TB.

Got 2 kids and a wife? Keep them safe!

 

[NCJL]

I would also like to further address the weight of the trailer issue.

When I started noticing lots of troubling
things with my TB trailer I consulted with a local trailer dealer, metal fabrication shop and mobile welder. All had experience with trailers both building and customizing. This group of experienced trailer builders suggested I research the DOT and NHSTA regulations regarding trailer weights and how to calculate. I did this. I suggest to anyone that is purchasing a trailer from a manufacturer do the same. I also recommend talking to the manufacturer about how and what DOT/NHSTA regulations they are following. Be specific when it comes to trailer weight.

What I discovered and my interpretation of what the rules are for listing trailer weights on the sticker.
MY TB is registered as a utility trailer. Rules are different for each type of trailer and vehicle depending on weight and what it is designed to do.
A utility trailer dry weight listing should include everything on the trailer when it leaves the factory. The weight of any bolt on accessories offered by the manufacturer must also be included in this weight, whether installed or not. Fluid tank weight when filled must also be included in this weight. With a utility trailer the term dry weight does not apply.
The above does not apply to RV type trailer. RV type trailers can list fluid weights separately. To be register as an RV permanent sleeping must be built in. A tent does not qualify.
The VIN sticker should also list tire size. The VIN on my TB trailer did not match what TB installed when it left the factory. Does not matter who provides tire and wheels. They installed them at the factory. Also if a manufacturer claims a larger tire will fit without modification, the weight of the larger tire shall be used.

An example for the above is a Jeep JL. My JLURD falls under the same weight listing requirement as my TB trailer.
The JLURD has a GVWR of 6100lbs. The cargo carrying capacity listed is 800lbs. This means the weight of the vehicle is figured at 5300lbs. MY JLURD weighed approximately 4900lbs when picked up from the dealer. My JLURD does not have every available bolt on option installed. FCA as the manufacturer by rule must use the weight of a fully optioned JLURD in the VIN/cargo carrying capacity sticker.

I presented all of the above to TB with DOT section #’s. I asked the questions stated above. Just like everything else….they had no reply and no idea what to say. Deer in the headlights.

 

[Jeff1]

Having a moment.
The only thing that matters is “got 2 kids” “my wife”
Family, spending time together and enjoying life.
The only question that needs to be asked is this.
Ask TB if they use wheel spacers on their trailer builds. The answer will be yes. Ask them if wheel spacers are DOT approved. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have derated the axle due to wheel spacers. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have approval from the axle wheel hub manufacturer to use wheel spacers without de rating the axle. The answer will be no.
If they say yes to any of these questions get it in writing.
I asked TB all of these questions. They would not provide any DOT certification or axle wheel hub manufacturer certification.

Does not matter if your particular trailer is getting wheel spacers are not.
My trailer had 2” wheel spacers. TB wanted to increase to 3” wheel spacers to stop tire from rubbing the inner fender.
When I picked up my trailer I saw a trailer with the ICON suspension with wheel spacers installed. I also saw a dedicated shelf in the assembly area with many variations of wheel spacers.
When picking up the trailer I questioned the closeness of tire to frame and wheel spacers. TB told me without hesitation or concern that this is what they do, building 15 trailers a month with only one failure.
This manufacturing process is life threatening! It applies to everything they do.
I truly hope they have made changes. I will never be able to recommend a TB product. I can only share my experience with TB.

Got 2 kids and a wife? Keep them safe!

Thats a terrible experience on a $30k + trailer. Why were they using wheel spacers in the first place, to fit oem Jeep wheels over the hub or because they're design isn't right? Either way wheel spacers can be dangerous.

I had a lot of issues with a $12k Runaway Venturist, but was lucky to unload it quickly, can't picture the frustration you're going thru.

 

[SuperNerdEE]

I would also like to further address the weight of the trailer issue.

When I started noticing lots of troubling
things with my TB trailer I consulted with a local trailer dealer, metal fabrication shop and mobile welder. All had experience with trailers both building and customizing. This group of experienced trailer builders suggested I research the DOT and NHSTA regulations regarding trailer weights and how to calculate. I did this. I suggest to anyone that is purchasing a trailer from a manufacturer do the same. I also recommend talking to the manufacturer about how and what DOT/NHSTA regulations they are following. Be specific when it comes to trailer weight.

What I discovered and my interpretation of what the rules are for listing trailer weights on the sticker.
MY TB is registered as a utility trailer. Rules are different for each type of trailer and vehicle depending on weight and what it is designed to do.
A utility trailer dry weight listing should include everything on the trailer when it leaves the factory. The weight of any bolt on accessories offered by the manufacturer must also be included in this weight, whether installed or not. Fluid tank weight when filled must also be included in this weight. With a utility trailer the term dry weight does not apply.
The above does not apply to RV type trailer. RV type trailers can list fluid weights separately. To be register as an RV permanent sleeping must be built in. A tent does not qualify.
The VIN sticker should also list tire size. The VIN on my TB trailer did not match what TB installed when it left the factory. Does not matter who provides tire and wheels. They installed them at the factory. Also if a manufacturer claims a larger tire will fit without modification, the weight of the larger tire shall be used.

An example for the above is a Jeep JL. My JLURD falls under the same weight listing requirement as my TB trailer.
The JLURD has a GVWR of 6100lbs. The cargo carrying capacity listed is 850lbs. This means the weight of the vehicle is figured at 5250lbs. MY JLURD weighed approximately 4900lbs when picked up from the dealer. My JLURD does not have every available bolt on option installed. FCA as the manufacturer by rule must use the weight of a fully optioned JLURD in the VIN/cargo carrying capacity sticker.

I presented all of the above to TB with DOT section #’s. I asked the questions stated above. Just like everything else….they had no reply and no idea what to say. Deer in the headlights.

I’m no expert in regards to legal issues surrounding trailer weights. I’ve looked at other trailers from other mfg and they also do the dry weight listing thing with no fluids, tent, etc. Both Patriot and Off Grid Trailers appear to do this. Perhaps this is just a problem with this emerging market, or perhaps your interpretation of the rules is incorrect. I cannot know and don’t really care to go try and educate myself on the laws and I wouldn’t assume my interpretation is even correct.
I hear you regarding how auto MFG list fully optioned due to the rules. But I think there is a big difference between auto MFG who have huge volumes and well established rules regarding exact ways to specify things as they leave the factory floor vs small market trailers. In any case, I personally I see this as picking nits. Most folks get the idea of dry weight and figure that their trailer will weigh more when fully optioned out with a tent, filled with water, etc.

 

[SuperNerdEE]

Thats a terrible experience on a $30k + trailer. Why were they using wheel spacers in the first place, to fit oem Jeep wheels over the hub or because they're design isn't right? Either way wheel spacers can be dangerous.

I had a lot of issues with a $12k Runaway Venturist, but was lucky to unload it quickly, can't picture the frustration you're going thru.

My understanding is they use wheel spacers for putting different wheels on, like oem Jeep wheels, which from NCJL’s picture a few posts back you can see. I don’t know if the backspacing on their standard wheels require a spacer or not. I would assume not but intend to ask.

 

[alksion]

Sheesh this is a lot to unpack. Is there anyone doing it “right” in this segment?

 

[BosOV]

it pulls really well. Depending on the trail you need to be a little cautious but then you would have to with any trailer

I should have addEd that I use a LockNRoll (https://locknroll.com/) hitch. Makes all the difference in the world

 

[NCJL]

Thats a terrible experience on a $30k + trailer. Why were they using wheel spacers in the first place, to fit oem Jeep wheels over the hub or because they're design isn't right? Either way wheel spacers can be dangerous.

I had a lot of issues with a $12k Runaway Venturist, but was lucky to unload it quickly, can't picture the frustration you're going thru.

Terrible is putting it mildly.
The overall trailer width is 72”. The frame width is 48”. The first suspension system installed had a WMS of 60”. Think that is a design issue.
The second suspension system had a WMS of 64”. TB told me when I asked if my OEM wheel and tire could be used “we do it all the time”
I’ve heard have not seen they also use wheel adapters. To help with matching different tow rigs. TB told me this.

 

[NCJL]

I’m no expert in regards to legal issues surrounding trailer weights. I’ve looked at other trailers from other mfg and they also do the dry weight listing thing with no fluids, tent, etc. Both Patriot and Off Grid Trailers appear to do this. Perhaps this is just a problem with this emerging market, or perhaps your interpretation of the rules is incorrect. I cannot know and don’t really care to go try and educate myself on the laws and I wouldn’t assume my interpretation is even correct.
I hear you regarding how auto MFG list fully optioned due to the rules. But I think there is a big difference between auto MFG who have huge volumes and well established rules regarding exact ways to specify things as they leave the factory floor vs small market trailers. In any case, I personally I see this as picking nits. Most folks get the idea of dry weight and figure that their trailer will weigh more when fully optioned out with a tent, filled with water, etc.

I’m not an expert either. That is why I asked TB. TB did not know the answers. That worried me!
If a trailer has a built in sleeping area it would probably qualify to be an RV. Different rules for RV.

 

[SuperNerdEE]

Having a moment.
The only thing that matters is “got 2 kids” “my wife”
Family, spending time together and enjoying life.
The only question that needs to be asked is this.
Ask TB if they use wheel spacers on their trailer builds. The answer will be yes. Ask them if wheel spacers are DOT approved. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have derated the axle due to wheel spacers. The answer will be no. Ask them if they have approval from the axle wheel hub manufacturer to use wheel spacers without de rating the axle. The answer will be no.
If they say yes to any of these questions get it in writing.
I asked TB all of these questions. They would not provide any DOT certification or axle wheel hub manufacturer certification.

Does not matter if your particular trailer is getting wheel spacers are not.
My trailer had 2” wheel spacers. TB wanted to increase to 3” wheel spacers to stop tire from rubbing the inner fender.
When I picked up my trailer I saw a trailer with the ICON suspension with wheel spacers installed. I also saw a dedicated shelf in the assembly area with many variations of wheel spacers.
When picking up the trailer I questioned the closeness of tire to frame and wheel spacers. TB told me without hesitation or concern that this is what they do, building 15 trailers a month with only one failure.
This manufacturing process is life threatening! It applies to everything they do.
I truly hope they have made changes. I will never be able to recommend a TB product. I can only share my experience with TB.

Got 2 kids and a wife? Keep them safe!

I do want to keep them safe and I appreciate your thoughts.
I am operating under the assumption that the stock wheels and tires require no spacers. Given that, how else would they put other wheels and tires with different tire widths and backspacing without a spacer? Seems to me like that’s the most effective way of accomplishing that, but I’m gonna admit I’m not an expert here. Same for changing the nut pattern.
As for safety, it seems like there are two camps: those who think spacers are inherently bad and those who don’t. I’ve read articles stating that they are fine, tho your point about the axle capability is valid. And for an unpowered axle are spacers less of a concern?

 

[NCJL]

Sheesh this is a lot to unpack. Is there anyone doing it “right” in this segment?

I bought my first off-road trailer from Adventure Trailer the horizon model. I think it was the first trailer sold. They got it right. Don’t think they sell trailers anymore.
we pulled that trailer thru the Rubicon, Dusy Ersim and many other trails with 2 kids. We pulled it with an LJ.

Sponsored