Top Tier gas

Do you use Too Tier gas in your JL/JLU?


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Dvol

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Let's compare engine life from pre 1995 to now. How long did you really expect your engine to last past 100k miles then? And how many miles do you expect engines to last past 100k now?

So yeah, older technology with an older blend of fuels worked fine. Just not as well and not as long as they do with today's technology and today's fuels.

1-1991 Golf GTI 367k original motor.

2-1972 SuperBeetle Unknown miles was in family for 20 years no rebuilds.

3-1991 VW Rabbit convertible 176k no rebuilds.

4-1995 4Runner 210k no Rebuilds.

5- 1985 Toyota Supra 187k no Rebuilds

6- 1969 Chevy stepside 200k+ no rebuild

7- 1981 Mazda RX-7 150k 1 rebuild

8- 1985 RX7 gslse first fuel injected rotary 200k+ stayed in family till mid 1990's

9- 1969 VW beetle motor finally died after 30 years of use

10- 1988 RX7 turbo rebuild before 100k

11- Multiple Nissan/datsun Z cars from 1972-1980 all over 100k no rebuilds 1980 280zx was totaled with over 200k several Z cars had over 200k

12- 1988 toyota celica 287k

13- 1985 4runner 150k

14- My first car 1977 toyota celica GT hatchback 187k totaled in a stupid fender bender...Miss this one alot..

Ive owned alot of high mile pre 1995 junk i had expectations of lasting over 100k cause most were purchased with 100k or more already. I would actually trust some of the older cars vs so called modern ones. All of this newer stuff i trust less and part with before 100k due to all the Gizmos and fancy safety crap that will fail and cost big $. Plus you have to have a laptop and dealer type software to work on most of this modern stuff. I do think modern engines are built well im just set in my ways and have trust issues lol..also mileage on alot of those cars were guessing on my part at best based on time owned cause most speedometers only went to 99999...

Edit: to stay on topic all were run on 87 octane except the 1988 turbo Rx7 i couldnt afford that fancy gas back then!





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tCub

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I only use BP gas.

Partly because I read up on top tier gas and heard BP is the best (not sure how true but) and partly because their BPme app is really awesome.

I pull up the pump, open the app, select the pump and hit Begin Fueling. No need to insert my card at the pump. Plus they give you $0.01 for every ten dollars spent so I get a perpetual $0.04. Throw the app on my partners phone, do the occasional top off and I accumulate some good discounts.

I’ve also found through the few road trips I’ve done with the Jeep, BPs are always in convenient locations and the stores are usually in good shape.
 

DanW

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My pre 1995 cars ran regular plain ole gas non ethanol and detergent free Gas. We just ran the dog crap out of them every now an then when performance dropped. Believe it was called an Italian Tune up ;).

If you read why the EPA forced a standard level of detergents was to get better emissions under the Clean Air Act. The theory was carbon build up caused more pollutants and emissions, EFI clogs ect. There is some science behind it just not sure how Biased the science is since the Auto Industry was involved in said studies. May be all factual idk dont really care tbh.

Fuel injectors would clog often back in the day. So was born a billion dollar industry of detergent additives. Fuel injection cleaners become a huge industry back then. Wonder how cars from the 20's-to mid 1995 survived without all these special money maker detergents....I'm sure these additives help i honestly don't know 100% there is alot of automotive experts that say they do. They also rich as hell from the profits off these wonder chemicals..

This top tier gas thing was born in 2004. I'm sure it does help long term idk, I am more concerned with what Ethanol does to my engine more than carbon build up. Ethanol is crap crap crap IMO. Leave that junk in a gas can without a stabilizer for a short time and see the gunk it forms. Even with those added detergents it forms gunk. Wonder what it does to your Engine and your fuel tank long term? Wonder why small engines like motorcycles lawn mowers weedeaters ect recommend you adding additional stuff to prevent damage from it. Ethanol is extremely Hygroscopic and has a short shelf life vs Pure gas. That worries me more than some secret magic detergents in the fuel. Oh and the cost of pure gas vs Ethanol gas is stupid crazy. Someones getting Rich off it all just not me :)

Last thing all these studies and Facts are on the Internet so it must be true right?:angel:
I agree that Ethanol doesn't really offer much, and it is certainly problematic for small engines. I personally, though, haven't had any problems with it in my cars/trucks/Jeeps.

Here are some non-internet facts and my own ass-cheek based studies, for those who think AAA is somehow an internet forum thing.

I've got a 20 year old Mercedes that has run most if not all of its 80k mile life on it, including sitting for long periods without running, and it hasn't had any fuel related engine issues. (It has only had a leaky rear main seal replaced). My 2008 JK has also had a steady life-long diet of it and after 133k miles, no issues. I almost forgot about my old 2002 Ford F150. It has sat for very long periods and still runs like a top. It only has around 75k miles or so on it. The truck is starting to rust, but that 5.4 runs just fine.

What has caused issues is carbon buildup that causes knocking and pinging. In the JK, when that happens, it requires a couple Italian tune-ups and a tank of V-Power. The auto store additives don't do much for it. I've run it on cheap gas before and it would take only one or two tankfuls to cause the knock/ping, especially in the summer. Top Tier fuel would be good for 3k to 5k before I'd hear it. The newest Shell formulations have me at around 9k right now with no knocking or pinging, so I feel like it has matched well with that old 3.8. Currently, it is running like brand new, other than the classic 3.8 oil usage.

I will note that the 3.8 in that JK does noticeably run better and stronger with ethanol free gas. No doubt about that. I run ethanol free when I can get it conveniently and reasonably priced.
 

DanW

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1-1991 Golf GTI 367k original motor.

2-1972 SuperBeetle Unknown miles was in family for 20 years no rebuilds.

3-1991 VW Rabbit convertible 176k no rebuilds.

4-1995 4Runner 210k no Rebuilds.

5- 1985 Toyota Supra 187k no Rebuilds

6- 1969 Chevy stepside 200k+ no rebuild

7- 1981 Mazda RX-7 150k 1 rebuild

8- 1985 RX7 gslse first fuel injected rotary 200k+ stayed in family till mid 1990's

9- 1969 VW beetle motor finally died after 30 years of use

10- 1988 RX7 turbo rebuild before 100k

11- Multiple Nissan/datsun Z cars from 1972-1980 all over 100k no rebuilds 1980 280zx was totaled with over 200k several Z cars had over 200k

12- 1988 toyota celica 287k

13- 1985 4runner 150k

14- My first car 1977 toyota celica GT hatchback 187k totaled in a stupid fender bender...Miss this one alot..

Ive owned alot of high mile pre 1995 junk i had expectations of lasting over 100k cause most were purchased with 100k or more already. I would actually trust some of the older cars vs so called modern ones. All of this newer stuff i trust less and part with before 100k due to all the Gizmos and fancy safety crap that will fail and cost big $. Plus you have to have a laptop and dealer type software to work on most of this modern stuff. I do think modern engines are built well im just set in my ways and have trust issues lol..also mileage on alot of those cars were guessing on my part at best based on time owned cause most speedometers only went to 99999...

Edit: to stay on topic all were run on 87 octane except the 1988 turbo Rx7 i couldnt afford that fancy gas back then!
Awesome list of cars! I can see how most of those fuel systems would be very vulnerable to ethanol. However, there is no claim to longer engine life with Top Tier, or at least I haven't seen that claim. Only less efficiency and deposit build up. Oh yeah, and lower emissions over time. Run the non Top Tier with confidence. I just prefer running better fuel, same as I prefer running better oil and filters.
 

Al13

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I use Costco which is a Top Tier gas. It cost the same as Sam’s club which isn’t Top Tier. When traveling, I use a Top Tier Brand name. Why not use the best, especially if cost is the same or less. I consider oil the same and only use Brand name synthetic.
 

DanW

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Awesome list of cars! I can see how most of those fuel systems would be very vulnerable to ethanol. However, there is no claim to longer engine life with Top Tier, or at least I haven't seen that claim. Only less efficiency and deposit build up. Oh yeah, and lower emissions over time. Run the non Top Tier with confidence. I just prefer running better fuel, same as I prefer running better oil and filters.
Read up, though, on why Top Tier was born. Engine designers at the automakers were the ones who pushed for it after much testing, which included disassembly of many, many engines and actually looking at the parts, let alone all the scientific methodolgy used. They saw it with their own eyes.

I don't have blind faith in modern science. I know how politics can grossly influence it. However, this was not born of environmentalism. It was born of differences in performance and a desire to maintain its peak longer. The lower emissions were more desired to protect the catyletic converters, which can cause costly warranty claims. In fact, that right there was probably the greatest motivation for the automotive execs to back it.
 

Dvol

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I use Costco which is a Top Tier gas. It cost the same as Sam’s club which isn’t Top Tier. When traveling, I use a Top Tier Brand name. Why not use the best, especially if cost is the same or less. I consider oil the same and only use Brand name synthetic.
I didn’t know Costco was top tier . That’s my primary fuel stop. Just based on it’s usually the best priced gas here.
 

Dvol

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Awesome list of cars! I can see how most of those fuel systems would be very vulnerable to ethanol. However, there is no claim to longer engine life with Top Tier, or at least I haven't seen that claim. Only less efficiency and deposit build up. Oh yeah, and lower emissions over time. Run the non Top Tier with confidence. I just prefer running better fuel, same as I prefer running better oil and filters.
I’ve always took care of my junk had too cause I alway had to buy other people’s well used junk. Hasn’t been till last 7years I’ve been able to buy newer vehicles.

I’m sure the science is there I’m just naturally skeptical of things the EPA and big oil say I need.. This doesn’t mean it doesn’t work or isn’t needed.

Hell I just found out from member @Al13 I’ve been buying top tier lol didn’t even realize it. I grew up in when gas was just gas.

My biggest issue is Ethanol. Big oil loves it so that makes me question when they recommend things. Doesn’t mean they ain’t right
 

DanW

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I’ve always took care of my junk had too cause I alway had to buy other people’s well used junk. Hasn’t been till last 7years I’ve been able to buy newer vehicles.

I’m sure the science is there I’m just naturally skeptical of things the EPA and big oil say I need.. This doesn’t mean it doesn’t work or isn’t needed.

Hell I just found out from member @Al13 I’ve been buying top tier lol didn’t even realize it. I grew up in when gas was just gas.

My biggest issue is Ethanol. Big oil loves it so that makes me question when they recommend things. Doesn’t mean they ain’t right
I do agree about Ethanol. I haven't had the trouble with it, but chemically, it just has to be a problem. I absolutely won't run my small engines and outboards with it.

I just ordered an ethanol test kit. I've seen reports that some refineries have allegedly been quietly putting less into the fuel because it is more expensive than gasoline right now. I saw one report that tested regular gas from a Shell station that had only 1 to 3% ethanol content, even though the pump was labeled 10%.

I'll let you know what I find when I get the kit. I'm going to fill a small gas can, bring it home, and test it. I will test several stations, too, and will also test the "Ethanol Free Recreational Gasoline" at the local Sunoco. It should be a fun little experiment.
 

Dvol

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I do agree about Ethanol. I haven't had the trouble with it, but chemically, it just has to be a problem. I absolutely won't run my small engines and outboards with it.

I just ordered an ethanol test kit. I've seen reports that some refineries have allegedly been quietly putting less into the fuel because it is more expensive than gasoline right now. I saw one report that tested regular gas from a Shell station that had only 1 to 3% ethanol content, even though the pump was labeled 10%.

I'll let you know what I find when I get the kit. I'm going to fill a small gas can, bring it home, and test it. I will test several stations, too, and will also test the "Ethanol Free Recreational Gasoline" at the local Sunoco. It should be a fun little experiment.
I think most gas pumps label the content of ethanol as up to a certain %. I’d really like to know whatcha find out.
 

digitalbliss

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1-1991 Golf GTI 367k original motor.

2-1972 SuperBeetle Unknown miles was in family for 20 years no rebuilds.

3-1991 VW Rabbit convertible 176k no rebuilds.

4-1995 4Runner 210k no Rebuilds.

5- 1985 Toyota Supra 187k no Rebuilds

6- 1969 Chevy stepside 200k+ no rebuild

7- 1981 Mazda RX-7 150k 1 rebuild

8- 1985 RX7 gslse first fuel injected rotary 200k+ stayed in family till mid 1990's

9- 1969 VW beetle motor finally died after 30 years of use

10- 1988 RX7 turbo rebuild before 100k

11- Multiple Nissan/datsun Z cars from 1972-1980 all over 100k no rebuilds 1980 280zx was totaled with over 200k several Z cars had over 200k

12- 1988 toyota celica 287k

13- 1985 4runner 150k

14- My first car 1977 toyota celica GT hatchback 187k totaled in a stupid fender bender...Miss this one alot..

Ive owned alot of high mile pre 1995 junk i had expectations of lasting over 100k cause most were purchased with 100k or more already. I would actually trust some of the older cars vs so called modern ones. All of this newer stuff i trust less and part with before 100k due to all the Gizmos and fancy safety crap that will fail and cost big $. Plus you have to have a laptop and dealer type software to work on most of this modern stuff. I do think modern engines are built well im just set in my ways and have trust issues lol..also mileage on alot of those cars were guessing on my part at best based on time owned cause most speedometers only went to 99999...

Edit: to stay on topic all were run on 87 octane except the 1988 turbo Rx7 i couldnt afford that fancy gas back then!
That's a good list, however I would guess that most of those vehicles were well maintained. Today's vehicles are expected to make 100k without batting an eye, 200k+i expected.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/...100000.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=all&
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_longevity
I'm not saying to tier claims extended engine life but what I am saying is that comparing what was "good enough" for vehicles of last century shouldn't be a benchmark for what you should use in today's.
 

Dvol

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That's a good list, however I would guess that most of those vehicles were well maintained. Today's vehicles are expected to make 100k without batting an eye, 200k+i expected.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/...100000.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=all&
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_longevity
I'm not saying to tier claims extended engine life but what I am saying is that comparing what was "good enough" for vehicles of last century shouldn't be a benchmark for what you should use in today's.
Good article btw. I’m not sure how they were maintained before my family acquired them. All I know is how me and my pops maintained them not how the previous owners did. Just took their word That they took care of them.

No Carfax or internet back then lol. We did Oil changes every 3k other fluid changes every 2-3 years and regular 87 octane pure gas no crap ethanol.

Oh and praying a lot every time you got behind the wheel helps as much now as it did then.
 
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Ronnie S

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$4.69 a gallon! Now that's a scam ! I would be riding my Harley until I was 80 !
Yep that’s why I just use the 93 octane stuff at $3.45 a gallon.
 

rodhotter

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all gas must by law have a certain amount of cleaners etc, top tier gasses have more than required, but even though legally top tier some gasses like citgo is at the bottom of top tier while exxon-mobil + shell are at the top of the list. top tier is good BUT with direct injection alone it does NOTHING to clean intake valves as the gas never touches them. some manufacturers are using both injection systems, a good thing for sure. the minor performance loss with port only means little + the less costly parts used with port only is a big plus IMO!!!
 

mtnbikeracer76

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I notice a difference in my HHR SS with a 2.0L turbo when I run Sunoco vs Royal Farms (not Top Tier). I get better fuel economy with Sunoco, but I get free fried chicken with Royal Farms.
 

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