Throwing 'Quality Control' out the window

[jjvincent]

JD Power reports today that initial quality has fallen 11% from last year. Goes to show that this is a widespread issue.

They blame ongoing supply disruptions, work-from-home and skyrocketing prices.

https://www.autonews.com/retail/jd-power-vehicle-quality-sinks-new-low

The "good" news is that other brands have worsened much more than Jeep:

Good to see Buick as #1. 99% of the people that buy them seem to be retired and only buy a Buick because GM stopped selling Oldsmobile.

Pro Tip.

If you are looking for an excellent used car that has been overmaintained and smells like medical cream and mothballs, a 2005 era Buick LeSabre is the way to go. They usually have around 60K on them. A quilt or afghan on the back seat. Usually a freemason baseball cap on the rear package shelf. Towels on the seat. Every year for a state inspection, even if it has 300 miles on if from the year before, it gets an oil change. One drop of fluid on the garage floor after sitting for a month, it gets fixed. Since the husband dies before the wife, she will bring it in and get all sorts of things done as her deceased husband took care of all of the car duties.

Next car in about 5 years will be a 2015 Chevy Malibu to Buick Regal. Those people think they are the best cars that ever existed and give them super high marks on quality since the 50's.

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[TheRaven]

Good to see Buick as #1. 99% of the people that buy them seem to be retired and only buy a Buick because GM stopped selling Oldsmobile.

Buicks have been extremely underrated since their design "renaissance" in 2010. No they are still not very exciting...but man are they NICE. Super plush, super quiet, super high quality both in feel and appearance. If you just want a handsome car that is a dream to cruise around in and will require very little to absolutely no attention whatsoever, you can't go wrong with Buick.

I had a 2012 Lacrosse CXS for a short time and it was a freakin nice car.

 

[aldo98229]

Good to see Buick as #1. 99% of the people that buy them seem to be retired and only buy a Buick because GM stopped selling Oldsmobile.

Pro Tip.

If you are looking for an excellent used car that has been overmaintained and smells like medical cream and mothballs, a 2005 era Buick LeSabre is the way to go. They usually have around 60K on them. A quilt or afghan on the back seat. Usually a freemason baseball cap on the rear package shelf. Towels on the seat. Every year for a state inspection, even if it has 300 miles on if from the year before, it gets an oil change. One drop of fluid on the garage floor after sitting for a month, it gets fixed. Since the husband dies before the wife, she will bring it in and get all sorts of things done as her deceased husband took care of all of the car duties.

Next car in about 5 years will be a 2015 Chevy Malibu to Buick Regal. Those people think they are the best cars that ever existed and give them super high marks on quality since the 50's.

Buick has consistently, but very quietly, been at the top of product quality rankings for the past 30 years.

I’d even venture say Buick has outranked Toyota and Honda for the past 10+ years.

 

[JJMalone]

I guess my jeeps are outliers. ’20 JLR has 121,693 miles on it and no bubbling paint, no leaking rear main seal or trans front seal, no broken lower intake manifold from over tightening oil filter, no dead batteries or electrical gremlins, no death wobbles, no leaking roofs, no locker senser failures, just boring good service. My 392 has about 10,000 miles on it now and it has also been, dare I say it-perfect. You’d think they were Buicks.

 

[huberro2]

I have spent a lot more money $$$$ on RV repairs/maintenance (Class A Diesel and 24' Trailer) than my Jeep JL, 3,6, 2019 Rubicon (Just oil changes, steering box replacement (from alum to steal), and added a control arm stabilizer to fix lane drift. LOL. Ruben has been off road, camping, and flat towed. Maybe I'm either lucky or just happy. Or not luck at all...Could be that the VIN indicates Ruben was NOT build on a hangover-Monday, nor on a TGIF-Get-the-Hell-Out-of-Dodge-Friday. Have to check. Anyway, I love this forum for its humor and ideas/recommendations from the Jeep Nation. I have learned a lot from you. Made upgrades and add-ons based on that shared knowledge. A big thanks !! Keep on Jeep'n

 

[Bill_P]

But it works both ways. Why should consumers not be upset that prices have been increasing every few months, while overall quality control never seems to improve.

In the automotive space, I really don't recall prices ever dropping substantially to reflect outsourced components and materials. When the Wrangler started getting their Pentastars built in Mexico (even with an operable Pentastar factory still in Toledo), did the prices drop? No, they stayed the same for a while and then increased in price several times since then.

Personally find it disgusting when US auto manufacturers have less US-made parts and assembly than the foreign manufacturers building their cars in our country.

My Toyota Tundra is more "American made" than the F-150 I traded in on it. The Toyota was built in San Antonio and the F-150 was built in Mexico.

 

[jjvincent]

My Toyota Tundra is more "American made" than the F-150 I traded in on it. The Toyota was built in San Antonio and the F-150 was built in Mexico.

Then you have BMW which has it's largest plant in the world located in SC. Plus, they export 70% of their product from that plant. I have a Made in America BMW X3 M40i which has been way more reliable than my Made in America Jeep. It doesn't matter where something is made, it's the company culture and plant management that makes the difference. I have been a manufacturing engineer and within the company, some plants turned out garbage while others did not.

Funny thing is, the Jeep is made in Ohio and so are Hondas. Yet the Hondas are way better quality over the Jeep. It can be done but unless the company does something about it, it will remain the same.

 

[jjvincent]

Buick has consistently, but very quietly, been at the top of product quality rankings for the past 30 years.

I’d even venture say Buick has outranked Toyota and Honda for the past 10+ years.

Buick is a GM product, thus when you work on them, they are all the same except for the interiors and some bodywork. Plus, a Buick and Chevy and Caddy will all go down the same assembly line. Yet Buick gets great marks for initial quality. I seriously doubt the workers spend more time on the Buick as opposed to a Chevy.

 

[aldo98229]

Buick is a GM product, thus when you work on them, they are all the same except for the interiors and some bodywork. Plus, a Buick and Chevy and Caddy will all go down the same assembly line. Yet Buick gets great marks for initial quality. I seriously doubt the workers spend more time on the Buick as opposed to a Chevy.

Yes, but each division has its own mixture of products in its lineup. Each vehicle is going to weigh differently into the overall brand score.

Either way, GM has done a much better job than Ford or FCA at consistently keeping its brands above industry average.

 

[jjvincent]

Yes, but each division has its own mixture of products in its lineup. Each vehicle is going to weigh differently into the overall brand score.

Either way, GM has done a much better job than Ford or FCA at consistently keeping its brands above industry average.

I would disagree when it comes to long term ownership. If you had to rate FCA, GM and Ford, I'd put Ford at the top. GM then FCA. If you look, the study many go after, is initial quality just based on the first 90 days of ownership (from JD Power). When you look at 5-10 year old vehicles, it changes for what I see in the real world. Toyota and Honda beat pretty much anything else out there.

My Jeep was perfection on the first 90 days of ownership. After that it fell off the wagon. My VW Alltrack was perfection for the first two years and after that, one issue that was the front radar alignment. The BMW has been perfect for the first three years.

I'm the oddball and keep cars for a while and long term quality is what I want to see. Thus when I work on lots of Toyotas and Hondas to where they get basic maintenance and wear items replaced over their first 10 years of ownership yet let's say a Buick where it's leaking oil like crazy and for some reason rear bumpers rust out, control arms are toast, a multitude of EVAP codes and the chassis is rusting out, I have to admit, they are not giving me the vote of confidence as opposed to the Japanese cars I mentioned of the same age and mileage.

 

[aldo98229]

I would disagree when it comes to long term ownership. If you had to rate FCA, GM and Ford, I'd put Ford at the top. GM then FCA. If you look, the study many go after, is initial quality just based on the first 90 days of ownership (from JD Power). When you look at 5-10 year old vehicles, it changes for what I see in the real world. Toyota and Honda beat pretty much anything else out there.

My Jeep was perfection on the first 90 days of ownership. After that it fell off the wagon. My VW Alltrack was perfection for the first two years and after that, one issue that was the front radar alignment. The BMW has been perfect for the first three years.

I'm the oddball and keep cars for a while and long term quality is what I want to see. Thus when I work on lots of Toyotas and Hondas to where they get basic maintenance and wear items replaced over their first 10 years of ownership yet let's say a Buick where it's leaking oil like crazy and for some reason rear bumpers rust out, control arms are toast, a multitude of EVAP codes and the chassis is rusting out, I have to admit, they are not giving me the vote of confidence as opposed to the Japanese cars I mentioned of the same age and mileage.

These are the latest rankings after 3 years of ownership; the longest ownership study that I know of: GM is still on top; Ford and FCA do not look very good.

Of the imports, Toyota and the Koreans hang to the top. But Honda has been sucking wind for several years now. Acura in particular looks pathetic for what it is supposed to be. Subaru, Nissan and most European brands do not look very good, either.

 

[jjvincent]

These are the latest rankings after 3 years of ownership; the longest ownership study that I know of: GM is still on top; Ford and FCA do not look very good.

Of the imports, Toyota and the Koreans hang to the top. But Honda has been sucking wind for several years now. Acura in particular looks pathetic for what it is supposed to be. Subaru, Nissan and most European brands do not look very good, either.

Remember, old people buy Buicks. They park them in the garage, have them washed all of the time, service them way too much and crank out not that many miles per year. Since they are retired, they tend to not have to drive as much as they did while working. Thus why I see many 2005 Buicks with a max of 60K on the clock. 2015 are running about 15K. I see Honda, Toyota, KIa/Hyundai in the 2015 range with 100K on them. Thus driving a car more means you'll see more problems. Typically wear and thus people equate that with quality as nobody wants to spend money on a car.

As for Kia/Hyundai, they have upped their level of quality in the last 5-7 years. People that buy them do little if any maintenance and drive them into the ground (they are not car people). I think that the Theta II debacle for Hyundai/Kia made them change their business plan on quality and covering up problems.

 

[lowmpg]

There's plenty of owners out here that are going to echo these comments and plenty of other owners that are gonna be like "So what? Get over it". I know the market is insane and Jeep is going full send on production to make orders happen, but sacrificing quality to make it happen isn't good either. I hate to say it but, @JeepCares this is the kind of rushed work that is getting skipped in production and pissing owners off.
Brand New 392 with less than 300 miles on the chassis.


For argument sake, yes, it's Litebrite's new build on a brand new 392. In fairness though, how many owners have experienced the same kind of failings in QC from Jeep lately? Between paint that's bubbling on the body to skimping on proper corrosion prevention, this sort of laziness is obnoxious and unacceptable to see in a product that can cost anywhere from $30,000 all the way north of $95,000. I've seen Kia's with less rust than this after 80,000 miles.

Am I crazy or is this just part of the whole "well, it's a Jeep so get used to it" experience? I'm thankful my 4xe has been relatively rust free since I ordered it, but this is getting ridiculous for a model that retails just shy of 80 grand.

Hmm, well I can only speak for my 2021 but it has no rust on welds, at all. I have no paint bubbles. I have 25K on it and have been through the fun Maryland winter where we use enough salt and brine on the road to eat the Titanic. So, I'm not sure it is as much quality control as it is bad luck with certain builds.

 

[lowmpg]

These are the latest rankings after 3 years of ownership; the longest ownership study that I know of: GM is still on top; Ford and FCA do not look very good.

Of the imports, Toyota and the Koreans hang to the top. But Honda has been sucking wind for several years now. Acura in particular looks pathetic for what it is supposed to be. Subaru, Nissan and most European brands do not look very good, either.

Let’s read the chart fine print:

"Rankings are based on numerical scores, and not necessarily on statistical significance."

These rankings are really just pointless. It's like polling an internet forum for problems with a vehicle, you're going to find more complaining than not.

 

[DewHawk]

Hmm, well I can only speak for my 2021 but it has no rust on welds, at all. I have no paint bubbles. I have 25K on it and have been through the fun Maryland winter where we use enough salt and brine on the road to eat the Titanic. So, I'm not sure it is as much quality control as it is bad luck with certain builds.

I’d say that’s fair. I’d also be willing to bet because of the production crunch that’s really hammering the line now that they’re rushing the paint/undercoating a little more. For instance, when mine went through the line, it went through all the stages over the course of a few days; it didn’t go from A-B in one shot like a bunch of people are seeing right now.

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