This could slow down 4xe sales

[dgoodhue]

The income limit is the head scratcher.

agreed. A family of 4 will not be able to get anywhere near the full tax credit Even a married couple with no kids who makes $100k with 401k/IRA and health deductions very well may not get the full $7500.

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[Jank4AU]

The EIC is available only to taxpayers with low or moderate earnings, whether or not they have qualifying dependents. To be eligible for the EIC, a taxpayer must have accrued earnings during the tax year.

interesting fact: your bio says you are from Alabama, a state that receives $2.08 in federal funds back for every $1 it raises in US federal taxes. By that ratio, Alabama is the eighth greatest beneficiary of redistributed federal funds at the state level.

They have to at least earn $1 and it is intended to reduce or eliminate their tax liability. Therefore, they pay no taxes and may actually get more back than was withheld. Part of my statement was just continuing from earlier

Alabama also has one of the lowest average incomes in the country. Hard to tax people with low incomes as much as you can states with higher incomes. Common sense. Lower incomes mean more federal aid for SNAP programs and other means tested aid assistance for the poor. The tax code was designed to be progressive. You can't design it that way then complain about it. I'm paying my family's share of federal taxes so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[csjlu]

They have to at least earn $1 and it is intended to reduce or eliminate their tax liability. Therefore, they pay no taxes and may actually get more back than was withheld. Part of my statement was just continuing from earlier

Alabama also has one of the lowest average incomes in the country. Hard to tax people with low incomes as much as you can states with higher incomes. Common sense. Lower incomes mean more federal aid for SNAP programs and other means tested aid assistance for the poor. The tax code was designed to be progressive. You can't design it that way then complain about it. I'm paying my family's share of federal taxes so I'm not sure what your point is.

1. There are taxes that may be collected from a working individual that are not personal income taxes.

2. the EIC is $0.34 for every $1 earned for lowest income earners. If they truly earn no/little income, the EIC is minimal, if anything.

3. The point about the states is that federal taxpayers of a select few states are subsidizing the budgets most other states. I've found it ironic that some of the most pronounced anti-redistributionist rhetoric tends to come from areas that are the greatest recipients of the redistribution. Ex: my dad is always baiting me about being a "coastal elite" because I am a high earner and live in a high tax state, but he always seems to forget that federal taxpayers like me and others in his hated states of CA NY NJ TX and FL are paying for a good portion of what goes on in his state (not AL, but close).

FWIW welfare and social programs don't seem like budget outliers in Alabama, as the state only allocates ~$1bn/yr or 3.7% of its annual budget to the issue.

 

[Jank4AU]

1. There are taxes that may be collected from a working individual that are not personal income taxes.

2. the EIC is $0.34 for every $1 earned for lowest income earners. If they truly earn no/little income, the EIC is minimal, if anything.

3. The point about the states is that federal taxpayers of a select few states are subsidizing the budgets most other states. I've found it ironic that some of the most pronounced anti-redistributionist rhetoric tends to come from areas that are the greatest recipients of the redistribution. Ex: my dad is always baiting me about being a "coastal elite" because I am a high earner and live in a high tax state, but he always seems to forget that federal taxpayers like me and others in his hated states of CA NY NJ TX and FL are paying for a good portion of what goes on in his state (not AL, but close).

FWIW welfare and social programs don't seem like budget outliers in Alabama, as the state only allocates ~$1bn/yr or 3.7% of its annual budget to the issue.

I'd be more than content or happy with a fair or flat tax.

 

[Reactor111]

Tax credits are deducted from the tax liabilities owed. It is difficult to generate tax liabilities with no income. I'm not aware of a "no liability" tax payer being paid by a credit.

Here you go.
Some tax credits are "refundable" meaning that even if you don't owe income tax, the IRS will issue you a refund if you're eligible. Many people miss out on a tax refund simply because they don't file an IRS tax return. There are more reasons you may want to file, even if you don't have to.May 14, 2021

 

[FrostySerb]

The income limit is the head scratcher.

not really … elimination of middle class

 

[JLSmitty]

Statistically, I am an above average earner. I have driven nothing but Jeeps for the past 10 years, going back and forth from Wranglers to Grand Cherokees. I have thoroughly enjoyed all of them.

I love my 4xe Sahara and think it is a very well engineered ride for certain average commutes, which my driving habits typically fall into. Yes, I can comfortably afford it without the tax credit. Would I have bought it without the tax credit? Not a chance. A credit is needed to get people in similar situations such as myself to adopt hybrid autos. But then again, this bill would count me out based on my income, and the price of the Jeep...

 

[multicam]

@mods this thread is too political and therefore sucks. I move we close this shit down. Take it to reddit

 

[Jank4AU]

@mods this thread is too political and therefore sucks. I move we close this shit down. Take it to reddit

Aw man, we can't even have one little thread with some political discussion? What does one expect when you ask about implications of a federal tax bill? Besides, no one has gotten ugly.,.yet! Lol

 

[tombovo]

...if you choose to live in San Francisco or Manhattan then you ain’t no American, at least not a real American...

I live in NYC because that is where I can get a good job, so I find the above just a bit offensive.

Pushing for a changeover to EVs is just kicking the can down the road. There is not enough infrastructure to support a rapid changeover to EVs:

1. Not enough charging stations
-say goodbye to long road trips if there is no place to charge up on the way
-I have a house with a garage, but no 220 line, so every charge will take 12 hours or more on standard 110 line, and I am not alone
-if you live in an apartment, you will be waiting in line for a charge every night if you have a long commute

2. Not enough electric generating capacity
-we still use coal for a significant portion of electric generation
-we are afraid of building nuclear power generating plants which are carbon neutral
-we have nowhere near enough solar and wind infrastructure.

And what happens to all those toxic batteries at their end of life? Is that the next crisis we will need to throw money at?

 

[jimim]

You have no idea what a single, decently achieved guy like me will be paying…. It’s likely i may just quit my job and be another dirtbag living off handouts.

My wife and myself say it everyday man. Everyday. Her famous during dinner line is “I have to work for my money”. I feel more and more each day no one works but seems to still live large.

 

[jimim]

How much money do you really think someone who is a "dirt bag living off handouts" makes? Hate to break it to you but you won't be driving around in your 2021 4XE living off no income.

Study in my area was done and showed a family sitting at home that can figure out how to get as much out of the system as possible can bring in 87 k. Yah it isn’t driving no 60 k Jeep around but it is a lot of money when you are prob not paying a mortgage, your credit card off monthly, and whatever else. Just kinda burns a bit when you are working 2 almost full time jobs to pack it away for your kids college find, retirement so I’m not 70 breaking my back still, but also have money to live in the now.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

The whole tax credit thing is social engineering…except Congress can’t figure out what it wants. If they want widespread rapid adoption of EVs then limiting tax credits based on income and low price point cars will throw cold water on the process; the value proposition for EVs is not quite where it needs to be yet. That may change in the next 3 - 5 years. I’m not suggesting thy necessarily do this but if they want to maximize adoption there should not be income limits and and any price point limits should be high. I had a Model 3 Tesla that I sold several months ago for an attractive price. I will buy another if tax credits are available on a Model Y. If not, I won’t. The value is not there without the credits.

 

[EJWF11]

The basis of this thread is politics! It’s all political, period.

And so are EVs (ie the basis of EVs is political), especially the 4xe, because in reality, the E capability does not suit the purpose of a 4x4 vehicle. You cant ignore that.

My wife and myself say it everyday man. Everyday. Her famous during dinner line is “I have to work for my money”. I feel more and more each day no one works but seems to still live large.

You know, im a bit of a clown at times (overly so), i wont deny it. It’s part of wanting to enjoy this ride called life.

But to be completely down to the bone and honest to what you said… im of an immigrant/first generation family. And one of life’s lessons that was beat into me growing up was that no meal is ever free, and that you enjoy what you work for, but you have to work. So i totally identify with what i understand to be the gist of your wife’s statement.

when it comes to the 4xe; i say, you get what you pay for. This technology and its broad application into the consumer market is still very much young and unproven. Battery material, charging and safety routines are very tricky to work with. So, for me 4xe’s are understandably expensive, and the infrastructure that’s supportive of ‘real-life’ use is still not there. Essentially, ‘it’s not time yet’.

But a tax incentive to consumers is not the answer to progress it sooner. A tax incentive to technology firms for r&d in infrastructure integration and battery efficiency/life, i think, would be.

 

[halljam]

Study in my area was done and showed a family sitting at home that can figure out how to get as much out of the system as possible can bring in 87 k. Yah it isn’t driving no 60 k Jeep around but it is a lot of money when you are prob not paying a mortgage, your credit card off monthly, and whatever else. Just kinda burns a bit when you are working 2 almost full time jobs to pack it away for your kids college find, retirement so I’m not 70 breaking my back still, but also have money to live in the now.

Gonna need a source for that one, my guy.

My wife and myself say it everyday man. Everyday. Her famous during dinner line is “I have to work for my money”. I feel more and more each day no one works but seems to still live large.

Just because you feel that way doesn't make it true. You have to work to maintain your lifestyle.

People who aren't working are straight up not living large. They may scrape by and have a new phone / shoes / whatever insignificant luxury that helps take away the sting, but they are in no way building any kind of wealth, taking vacations, or living with the creature comforts that someone who has a steady job or career has.

It's a tough situation. Just be thankful you aren't in a worse position in life. Our social safety nets are to keep folks from living on the streets EN MASSE, which we really, really don't want.

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