This could slow down 4xe sales

[csjlu]

$100k/year covers 2/3 of American households. I'd guess that **most** 4xe buyers could afford it even w/o the subsidy.

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[GATORB8]

If the 4xe can outperform the gas models and give better than 20 miles before charging, I'd consider it if it were a similar price. I'd still like to know how electric bills are affected by the charging of EVs vs. gas costs.

From fueleconomy.gov:

Estimated 68 kwh per 100 miles, average in NC is 0.1124 per kwh. So 7.64 cents per mile.
Estimated 5 gal per 100 miles, call it $3/gallon. So 15 cents per mile.

Say you can get 100 miles per week electric (20 miles x 5 days), would add about 30 bucks a month to the electric bill, and save about 60 bucks in gas.

 

[Jank4AU]

Not to mention the fact that we already did this several years ago. I believe that it was called a "big, beautiful tax cut".

@Asterix2112 You can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. So it necessarily has to go to those who pay the taxes.

 

[GATORB8]

@Asterix2112 You can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. So it necessarily has to go to those who pay the taxes.

They just use stimulus checks to do that.

 

[CrimsonGhost]

From fueleconomy.gov:

Estimated 68 kwh per 100 miles, average in NC is 0.1124 per kwh. So 7.64 cents per mile.
Estimated 5 gal per 100 miles, call it $3/gallon. So 15 cents per mile.

Say you can get 100 miles per week electric (20 miles x 5 days), would add about 30 bucks a month to the electric bill, and save about 60 bucks in gas.

I fill up my GC about every 2 weeks getting 13-15 MPG now that I work from home. My trips are toting the kids around and going grocery shopping. My JLU will definitely get more recreational driving. But Pandemic has cut me down to 6k miles per year.

I probably could have swung the 4xe if I wanted to.

 

[rent]

$100k/year covers 2/3 of American households. I'd guess that **most** 4xe buyers could afford it even w/o the subsidy.

Last I checked $100k/year is at about 66% percentile of US household income distribution - meaning only 1/3 American households make $100k/year or more.

 

[mdkautzman]

So will the next mandate be all apartment complexes must install charging stations??
So much is never addressed with EV's.

 

[csjlu]

Last I checked $100k/year is at about 66% percentile of US household income distribution - meaning only 1/3 American households make $100k/year or more.

Correct. So 2/3 of households would still be entitled to the EV tax credit. And some/most of those who are not could probably swing the 4xe without the federal assistance.

 

[OINC]

I am using the $7500 credit now on my 4xe for the 3rd time in my life, and I think it’s stupid to give a tax credit that everyone subsidizes and just benefits middle and upper class people. This bill is at least something, and I would no longer be eligible, but it won’t survive the house. They need to get rid of it totally and give POS incentives to lower income people.

It's called an incentive because it's supposed to make you more inclined to do something. Without the $7,500 tax incentive, I would not have ordered my 4xe, period. It's not efficient enough to pay that much more for. I would have to probably drive it for 20+ years to make up the added cost over a total ICE Rubicon. As has been said, the technology is so new right now that it's expensive so if they really, REALLY want us to go EV or minimize our carbon footprint, why pick and choose which people adopt the technology?

This. New technology is ALWAYS very expensive at first, and available only to the upper classes and early adopters. Think about what's happened to the prices of computers over time, for example. Or cellphones -- remember what it was like to buy a cell phone in the late 90s, and just how expensive those plans were?

If it's good technology, it gets more affordable as it becomes more widely adopted. The latest and greatest remains expensive but for every technology with staying power, there are eventually options across the pricing spectrum.

The same thing happened to ICE vehicles in the late 19th and early 20th century, and it is already happening to BEVs (and maybe FCEVs) in the early 21st. Remember that the Tesla Roadster was 100K base, the Model S started at 60K base, and the model S starts at 40K base.

The tax credit is there to stimulate demand by expanding the group of people who can afford the new technology, which is making the process happen faster by incentivizing research and development into better batteries/charging technology as well as manufacturing efficiency.

You may disagree about whether we should shift to BEVs (or FCEVs, which are included in EV tax credits, for the record!), but if you think we should, expanding and enhancing the tax credit will speed that process along considerably.

 

[GATORB8]

Correct. So 2/3 of households would still be entitled to the EV tax credit. And some/most of those who are not could probably swing the 4xe without the federal assistance.

Fixed it for you:

Correct. So 2/3 of households would still be entitled to the EV tax credit. And some/most of those who are not could probably swing the 4xe without the federal assistance reduction of the 86% of federal taxes they pay.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

The income limit is the head scratcher.

It’s the legislative equivalent of blowing a raspberry at all the coastal elites buying up Tesla vehicles. GOP needs to continue to provide window dressing that they are standing up for little guys like David Koch and Peter Thiel while sticking it to those ridiculous self-entitled “who died and made you God” zillionaires like Zuckerberg who bought his house and the 5 surrounding houses which touch his property line so that he could have a “moat” around his little Camelot. The nerve of some people!

If all of this passes, then the bare bones F-150 Lightning might be the biggest beneficiary.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

The basis of this thread is politics! It’s all political, period.

Exactamundo. The Fonz would agree with you. But that was before he jumped the shark.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

Even then it largely depends on where you live. If you're in AL, then yeah, If you're in Manhattan or San Francisco, not so much. So stupid to put a dollar cap on it, carte blanche.

As the commander in chief would say … C’mon man.

Our elected officials should do what is good for Americans. The proposed income cap makes sense because if you choose to live in San Francisco or Manhattan then you ain’t no American, at least not a real American. Doncha know that half the people who live in those cities are part of Taliban sleeper cells, right? And the other half are Canada-lovin’ socialists. And the third half are anchor babies like Bruce Lee and Barack Obama.

 

[Heimkehr]

So, the public assistance scheme for electric vehicles may have a bit of belt-tightening occur.

Introducing welfare into a market that doesn't require it distorts that market.

 

[ThirtyOne]

Correct. So 2/3 of households would still be entitled to the EV tax credit. And some/most of those who are not could probably swing the 4xe without the federal assistance.

it doesn’t matter if they could swing it. It matters if they would. Most would likely buy the ICE to save the extra money.

this is not designed as a tax break to benefit the buyer. It is intended to incent adoption of a relatively early stage technology.

and we all know it is bad faith for the Republicans to cry foul over a tax incentive for the rich. They believe rich people deserve tax incentives to reward them for getting rich. It has nothing to do with it. They are just trying to slow EV adoption because there are rich powerful lobbies that don’t like EVs.

I’m not anti-republican or pro-ev. I’m just saying this is a policy issue.Has nothing to do with whether these credits are regressive or not. Yeah lots of people don’t want to see coastal elites get a tax credit on a Tesla they would probably have bought anyway. But EV adoption needs to spread beyond them, and the incentives help that happen.

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