Rival: 2025 4Runner Prices Announced

[Ratbert]

A 1960 dollar (90% silver coin) is worth $25 today so you actually can buy a 2024 Jeep for the same price as new Jeep in 1960.

Are you suggesting that the delta in price of a specific coin somehow maps over to vehicle prices?

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[sonrider657]

I'm pointing out that, if measured in terms of sound-money like silver, the price of Jeeps has not increased at all since 1960. It's the rapidly depreciating dollar that has changed;
1960 Jeep CJ5 MSRP = $1,979 = 1,544 ounces of silver (each dollar contained 0.78 ounces of silver in 1960).
In 2024 an ounce of silver ~= $31.
1,544 ounces * $31/ounce = $47,852 which is roughly the average price of a 2024 Jeep.
So, measured in silver, Jeeps have not gotten any more expensive over the last 64 years.

#EndTheFed

 

[Only-In-A-Jeep]

I'm pointing out that, if measured in terms of sound-money like silver, the price of Jeeps has not increased at all since 1960. It's the rapidly depreciating dollar that has changed;
1960 Jeep CJ5 MSRP = $1,979 = 1,544 ounces of silver (each dollar contained 0.78 ounces of silver in 1960).
In 2024 an ounce of silver ~= $31.
1,544 ounces * $31/ounce = $47,852 which is roughly the average price of a 2024 Jeep.
So, measured in silver, Jeeps have not gotten any more expensive over the last 64 years.

#EndTheFed

The problem with this is the 1960 price is a basic Jeep. When you get to 2024 you take the average which covers all of the higher trims. You should only use the basic Jeep model which would be around 32k or so to keep your logic intact.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Sorry...I did not pick up on that. It would be nice to still buy in 1960 dollars though.

I'd like to buy apple stocks in 1980 dollars. If we'd all bought $4k in apple instead of a new jeep back then we'd be sitting on about $10 million today.

 

[Ratbert]

I'm pointing out that, if measured in terms of sound-money like silver, the price of Jeeps has not increased at all since 1960. It's the rapidly depreciating dollar that has changed;
1960 Jeep CJ5 MSRP = $1,979 = 1,544 ounces of silver (each dollar contained 0.78 ounces of silver in 1960).
In 2024 an ounce of silver ~= $31.
1,544 ounces * $31/ounce = $47,852 which is roughly the average price of a 2024 Jeep.
So, measured in silver, Jeeps have not gotten any more expensive over the last 64 years.

#EndTheFed

It seems kind of random to pick silver. Why not gold since it has increased by about 2x that of silver since 1960, resulting in a completely different perspective.

p.s.: if you hit the Reply button on a specific post it'll quote the post you're replying to instead of the general thread.

 

[Bill_B]

Believe it or not, majority of Jeep Wrangler sales are not hardcore rock crawlers. The volume in the marketplace is consumers who will absolutely, 100% seriously cross-shop the 4runner, Wrangler, and Bronco.

The things that most people in this forum believe "make a Jeep a Jeep" matter extremely little to the bulk of today's auto shoppers. They just want something that looks cool, sits high like a truck, and can handle a dirt or gravel road.

The vast majority of Jeep Wranglers only leave pavement to park in a dirt parking lot or the rare gravel road.

I fit into this category, I cross shopped my jeep with a convertible Camaro and Mustang lol. I wanted something with 4 seats and a removable top to enjoy with my wife and 2 daughters on relatively nice days. My jeep has a magnaflow catback and cold air intake and I love “banging gears” on our rural back roads!

The jeep won out for 3 major seasons
-price (got it for around $31k new otd)
-removable doors
-hitch (I can put the bike rack on there with the girl bicycles)

 

[sonrider657]

It seems kind of random to pick silver. Why not gold since it has increased by about 2x that of silver since 1960, resulting in a completely different perspective.

p.s.: if you hit the Reply button on a specific post it'll quote the post you're replying to instead of the general thread.

Silver is not a random comparison; it's been the basis of real money for thousands of years including in the United States until 1965. That's why dollar bills used to say, "Silver Certificate" and now say, "Federal Reserve Note." What was once backed by silver is now backed by nothing. The government is now free to create dollars without limit which has been destroying the value of the dollar.

 

[sonrider657]

The problem with this is the 1960 price is a basic Jeep. When you get to 2024 you take the average which covers all of the higher trims. You should only use the basic Jeep model which would be around 32k or so to keep your logic intact.

Good point. This actually reveals that Jeeps have gotten significantly cheaper in terms of sound-money since 1960.
In 1960, a base Jeep cost 1,544 ounces of silver. In 2024, a base Wrangler Sport costs only 1,032 ounces.
It's not greedy corporations making things more expensive; it's the government making the dollar worth less.

 

[sonrider657]

It seems kind of random to pick silver. Why not gold since it has increased by about 2x that of silver since 1960, resulting in a completely different perspective.

p.s.: if you hit the Reply button on a specific post it'll quote the post you're replying to instead of the general thread.

Let's do the same analysis with gold:

1960 Jeep CJ5 MSRP = $1,979 = 54.22 ounces of gold (gold price was $36.50 in 1960).
In 2024 an ounce of gold ~= $2,600.
54.22 ounces * $2,600/ounce = $140,970 which is 4.4 times the price of a base 2024 Jeep.
So, measured in gold, Jeeps have gotten MUCH CHEAPER over the last 64 years.

It is not companies raising prices that is the problem; it is the dollar being destroyed since leaving the gold standard.

 

[Only-In-A-Jeep]

Good point. This actually reveals that Jeeps have gotten significantly cheaper in terms of sound-money since 1960.
In 1960, a base Jeep cost 1,544 ounces of silver. In 2024, a base Wrangler Sport costs only 1,032 ounces.
It's not greedy corporations making things more expensive; it's the government making the dollar worth less.

I actually agree with you. Price increases happen for a number of reasons and in the case of automobiles the modern features along with governmental regulations are a primary driver of that. Not casting judgement on those things...just simply stating facts.

Again though, I believe the announced 4Runner pricing shows clearly that Jeep is not out of line. For those who trash Jeep pricing I think they will find the cost of a comparable vehicle to be more.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I actually agree with you. Price increases happen for a number of reasons and in the case of automobiles the modern features along with governmental regulations are a primary driver of that. Not casting judgement on those things...just simply stating facts.

Again though, I believe the announced 4Runner pricing shows clearly that Jeep is not out of line. For those who trash Jeep pricing I think they will find the cost of a comparable vehicle to be more.

I've argued this point at least a dozen times. Comparably equipped 4wd trucks and suvs either start at or well above base wrangler pricing. Unless you're comparing compact suvs with awd, cvt, unibody construction, and no real off road capability like a rav4 (and even then they start right about base wrangler pricing) Jeeps are a bargain. With the Grenadire, land cruiser, and defender pricing even 392s are affordable.

 

[Ratbert]

Let's do the same analysis with gold:

1960 Jeep CJ5 MSRP = $1,979 = 54.22 ounces of gold (gold price was $36.50 in 1960).
In 2024 an ounce of gold ~= $2,600.
54.22 ounces * $2,600/ounce = $140,970 which is 4.4 times the price of a base 2024 Jeep.
So, measured in gold, Jeeps have gotten MUCH CHEAPER over the last 64 years.

It is not companies raising prices that is the problem; it is the dollar being destroyed since leaving the gold standard.

That's my point exactly. What you're using as a baseline is unrelated to the current value of money. So much so that using a different baseline results in a Jeep being, as you said, "MUCH CHEAPER over the last 64 years", which is significantly different than your previous analysis using silver.

Sorry, we don't horde or buy and sell things with various metals.

 

[sonrider657]

Sorry, we don't horde or buy and sell things with various metals.

That's the problem. If we used metals (gold & silver) as the basis for our money (as has been done for thousands of years and in the USA until 55 years ago) prices would be stable. With fiat currency, the value of the currency always races to zero which make nominal prices rise.

 

[Ratbert]

That's the problem. If we used metals (gold & silver) as the basis for our money (as has been done for thousands of years and in the USA until 55 years ago) prices would be stable. With fiat currency, the value of the currency always races to zero which make nominal prices rise.

We no longer use precious metals as the basis for our money, so why act like we do?

Just to make a political statement?

 

[sonrider657]

We no longer use precious metals as the basis for our money, so why act like we do?

Just to make a political statement?

It's not a political point; it's an economic point. Metal-based currencies are stable. Fiat currencies are not.

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