Request for Advice - Rock, Mud and Slope

[Capt. Don]

Last weekend I had our new 2022 High Tide with Xtreme Recon package on one of my favorite trails between Yabucoa, up over the mountain on an old electric line road, and down to Maunabo. Having a good time with three friends along. The video shows us progressing up nicely.
About a quarter mile beyond this we came upon a bad washout due to heavy rains in the previous week. Here was the situaron:
steep slope, water coming out of the mountain keeping about 20 ft. of the slope muddy. At the top of this mud area, a large boulder with a perfect vertical 12 inches sat half way across the trail on the left side. Exposed by erosion. Above this the trail leveled off. No way around in dense forest. Here is what I tried three times.
I could get up through the mud and slope (good job, Big Blue). I could keep the Jeep in place with wheel spin and the left tire up against the vertical 12 inch a rock. But turning the wheel back and forth, I could not get enough forward momentum to climb that rock with my left muddy tire with new K02 35 BFG. Stopping the wheel spin and applying brakes just saw me slide back down the slope in the mud.
What should I have done? I’ll start the list.
1. I wasn’t aired down to my customary off-road 15 psi. My bad. I expected a pretty tame climb. Dumb that I did not fix that on the second or third try.
2. I did not have a winch. Plenty of trees on the side of the road.
3.
4.
5.

What else does your experience recommend for when you can handle the slope and rock, or the slope and mud, but not all three together?

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[JEEP4U]

Air down.

Mud Terrain tires are needed - K02 are horrible in mud... They do not clean out easily.

If you can do it safely, additional wheel speed may help. Are you in 4L or 4Hi ?

lockers maybe needed

 

[Jim1964]

MT tires will make the largest difference in mud. Air down to get the best grip on rock. Winch is certainly the top choice for when nothing else will do.

Lockers and sway bar disconnect are certainly helpful, but you have to unload some $$$ to add them.

 

[Capt. Don]

MT tires will make the largest difference in mud. Air down to get the best grip on rock. Winch is certainly the top choice for when nothing else will do.

Lockers and sway bar disconnect are certainly helpful, but you have to unload some $$$ to add them.

Good input. Yes the All-Terrains loaded up to the point that on the third try, the imprint in the mud was completely smooth with no tread apparent. Still, amazingly they got up the mud slope. Yes, lockers and sway bar disconnect would have helped. Points well taken. Hard to beat a Rubicon in these circumstances.

 

[Capt. Don]

Air down.

Mud Terrain tires are needed - K02 are horrible in mud... They do not clean out easily.

If you can do it safely, additional wheel speed may help. Are you in 4L or 4Hi ?

lockers maybe needed

Yes, the All-Terrains loaded up until perfectly smooth. Still they got me up the mud slope on the third time, I do not know how. In 4-Lo with 4.56 gears in the diffs. Crawl ratio was not a problem. 12.9 inches of ground clearance was good. Good point on lockers. I considered more speed to get some bounce on the rock but seemed a bad idea with a vertical face. Thank you for your insights.

 

[J0E]

Good point on lockers.

So did you have the wheel on the front and rear axle with the least traction spinning?

I considered more speed to get some bounce on the rock but seemed a bad idea with a vertical face.

At least you don't have a FAD to provide a brake point when sending it. But sending it against a vertical face is a bad idea, even without a FAD.

According to the news, you better get MT's and a generator.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

Lockers and a sway bar disconnect aren't getting you up a slick muddy hill. If that HT has an LSDz that was beneficial but biggest issue is traction.

 

[wibornz]

Of course MT tires and lockers all would help. I think you needed to drop down the air pressure. It is way more important than you think. When you air the tire down, it gives the tire the ability to fold over the rock and help lift the Jeep up. Air down tires will wrap around and obstacles instead of spinning on the obstacle. The aired down tire would have conformed to the rock, and created an easier climb with the folded over the rock.

Many look at a few pounds as not that big of a deal when in fact it can be huge. Going from 15 psi to 10 psi is a 33% drop in pressure. and then every pound under 10 psi is 10%. Everyone thinks its about the contact patch, and of course it is, but it is also about letting the tire flex and conform.

Like this...

This is what a tire conforming to the obstacle looks like. It will fold, mold to the obstacle and be able to lift and get traction where as a more inflated tire will not grip and spin easier.

 

[Capt. Don]

Of course MT tires and lockers all would help. I think you needed to drop down the air pressure. It is way more important than you think. When you air the tire down, it gives the tire the ability to fold over the rock and help lift the Jeep up. Air down tires will wrap around and obstacles instead of spinning on the obstacle. The aired down tire would have conformed to the rock, and created an easier climb with the folded over the rock.

Many look at a few pounds as not that big of a deal when in fact it can be huge. Going from 15 psi to 10 psi is a 33% drop in pressure. and then every pound under 10 psi is 10%. Everyone thinks its about the contact patch, and of course it is, but it is also about letting the tire flex and conform.

Like this...

This is what a tire conforming to the obstacle looks like. It will fold, mold to the obstacle and be able to lift and get traction where as a more inflated tire will not grip and spin easier.

Absolutely true. Thank you for the input.

 

[Capt. Don]

Lockers and a sway bar disconnect aren't getting you up a slick muddy hill. If that HT has an LSDz that was beneficial but biggest issue is traction.

Good point. No one wheel was spinning out of control. All four wheels were spinning. With just brakes on Big Blue slipped back down the hill. But I hear three things here on this thread that would have helped.
1. Tires should have been aired down without a doubt.
2. Mud terrains would be a better choice than All-Terrains, especially as this is a common scenario here.
3. If I had gotten that left front tire to begin it’s climb of that rock, I do believe sway bar disconnect would have been of value for the improved articulation of that wheel.

 

[rcadden]

I'll echo the others - air down and disconnect your sway bar before you hit the trail, even if you think you don't need it.

It's *much* easier to do on the [usually] flat ground at the trail head than trying to do it in the field.

To manually disconnect your sway bar, you just need a pair of 18mm wrenches. Helps if one is a socket/ratchet, but you can do it with two plain ones. Takes just a few minutes but definitely helps.

Also, manually disconnecting your sway bar once or twice will make it much, much easier to justify swapping that plastic bumper out for the OEM steel one. Those plastic wings will slice your arms up real nice (ask me how I know...)

There's a group out there who prefer to challenge themselves by keeping their Jeep fully aired up, in 2H, etc on the trail, as though preparing for the trail (air down, 4H, etc) is for weaklings. I'm a believer in preparing for the worst and being ready for anything.

 

[wibornz]

I'll echo the others - air down and disconnect your sway bar before you hit the trail, even if you think you don't need it.

It's *much* easier to do on the [usually] flat ground at the trail head than trying to do it in the field.

To manually disconnect your sway bar, you just need a pair of 18mm wrenches. Helps if one is a socket/ratchet, but you can do it with two plain ones. Takes just a few minutes but definitely helps.

Also, manually disconnecting your sway bar once or twice will make it much, much easier to justify swapping that plastic bumper out for the OEM steel one. Those plastic wings will slice your arms up real nice (ask me how I know...)

There's a group out there who prefer to challenge themselves by keeping their Jeep fully aired up, in 2H, etc on the trail, as though preparing for the trail (air down, 4H, etc) is for weaklings. I'm a believer in preparing for the worst and being ready for anything.

I personally love it when people leave their Jeep in two drive and don't air down. It is awesome when they are in front of people and spin rocks out of their tires into others grill, AC condenser, lights and windshield. It also fun when they spin mud all over everyone and get stuck and are crappy to other people when they need help getting unstuck.

 

[Capt. Don]

So did you have the wheel on the front and rear axle with the least traction spinning?

All four tires were spinning mud encrusted tires.

At least you don't have a FAD to provide a brake point when sending it. But sending it against a vertical face is a bad idea, even without a FAD.

According to the news, you better get MT's and a generator.

So did you have the wheel on the front and rear axle with the least traction spinning?



At least you don't have a FAD to provide a brake point when sending it. But sending it against a vertical face is a bad idea, even without a FAD.

According to the news, you better get MT's and a generator.

Generator?

 

[Capt. Don]

I'll echo the others - air down and disconnect your sway bar before you hit the trail, even if you think you don't need it.

It's *much* easier to do on the [usually] flat ground at the trail head than trying to do it in the field.

To manually disconnect your sway bar, you just need a pair of 18mm wrenches. Helps if one is a socket/ratchet, but you can do it with two plain ones. Takes just a few minutes but definitely helps.

Also, manually disconnecting your sway bar once or twice will make it much, much easier to justify swapping that plastic bumper out for the OEM steel one. Those plastic wings will slice your arms up real nice (ask me how I know...)

There's a group out there who prefer to challenge themselves by keeping their Jeep fully aired up, in 2H, etc on the trail, as though preparing for the trail (air down, 4H, etc) is for weaklings. I'm a believer in preparing for the worst and being ready for anything.

Good advice. Thank you.

 

[GATORB8]

Another option, modify the obstacle. Stack rocks or branches.

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