Regen indicator ... w/o a gauge

[47Jeepster]

2023 JLRUD with a few regen problems. At ~9500 miles I had to limp in to the dealer for a forced regen ... dash lit up like a Christmas tree. Then at ~10,000 miles, while on the way to Moab, I limped into another dealer with a turbo controller code. They replaced the turbo. I found a number of mechanic mistakes with the repair, so have been running trails locally until I'm comfortable that all mistakes have been corrected.

Bought an iDash Data Monster to follow the soot build-up and regen cycle. The Off/Pas/Act signal is useless because it's never steady ... keeps flashing back and forth between two ajacent stages. Thus, I use the DPF inlet temp, with an active alert set at 1000 degrees F, to signal when a regen cycle starts. My Jeep hits 1200 to 1250 degrees F when in the middle of a regen cycle.

My last four regens have averaged 110 miles between. That's a mix of 45mph in town with stop lights, trail riding, and expressway driving at 75mph. Even though the PID says average milage between regens, the Banks tech says it reports the mileage between the last regen and the one before that. Trying to figure out if it measures from the start-to-the-start of those regens or the finish-to-the-start of the current one. Banks isn't great about providing info on what is acturally being measured for many of the PIDs.

Caught a regen while in the 45mph, with stop lights, area of town and found that the data supports the idea that the idle RPM is raised during a regen. In fact, it goes up from a normal 650rpm to 850rpm. The attached graph shows the engine RPM in blue The start and stop (from another graph) of the regen cycle in orange vertical dashed lines. The red horizontal lines show the engine at 650rpm when stopped at a traffic light. And, the green horizontal line show the engine at 850rpm when stopped at a traffic light during the regen cycle.

So, if you don't have an add-on gauge and wonder if you're in a regen cycle, simply stop with the Jeep in gear and check out the engine RPM ... if it's at 850, then you're in a regen cycle.

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[CO2Wrangler]

2023 JLRUD with a few regen problems. At ~9500 miles I had to limp in to the dealer for a forced regen ... dash lite up like a Christmas tree. Then at ~10,000 miles, while on the way to Moab, I limped into another dealer with a turbo controller code. They replaced the turbo. I found a number of mechanic mistakes with the repair, so have been running trails locally until I'm comfortable that all mistakes have been corrected.

Bought an iDash Data Monster to follow the soot build-up and regen cycle. The Off/Pas/Act signal is useless because it's never steady ... keeps flashing back and forth between two ajacent stages. Thus, I use the DPF inlet temp, with an active alert set at 1000 degrees F, to signal when a regen cycle starts. My Jeep hits 1200 to 1250 degrees F when in the middle of a regen cycle.

My last four regens have averaged 110 miles between. That's a mix of 45mph in town with stop lights, trail riding, and expressway driving at 75mph. Even though the PID says average milage between regens, the Banks tech says it reports the mileage between the last regen and the one before that. Trying to figure out if it measures from the start to the start of those regens or the finish to the start of the current one. Banks isn't great about providing info on what is acturally being measured for many of the PIDs.

Caught a regen while in the 45mph, with stop lights, area of town and found that the data supports the idea that the idle RPM is raised during a regen. In fact, it goes up from a normal 650rpm to 850rpm. The attached graph shows the engine RPM in blue The start and stop (from another graph) of the regen cycle in orange vertical dashed lines. The red horizontal lines show the engine at 650rpm when stopped at a traffic light. And, the green horizontal line show the engine at 850rpm when stopped at a traffic light during the regen cycle.

So, if you don't have an add-on gauge and wonder if you're in a regen cycle, simply stop with the Jeep in gear and check out the engine RPM ... if it's at 850, then you're in a regen cycle.

I use a Bluetooth OBD2 and the Torque app. I can see the Soot% jump to 100 and watch the DPF temp go over 1000 and have it flash at me.

When this happened last time I had just pulled in my driveway. I was able to sit in my driveway and and hold the RPMs with my foot right at 2-2.5k for a few minutes and the Regen completed successfully. I honestly didn't think it was going to work, but here we are.

I'll have to keep an eye on the idle next time too.

 

[47Jeepster]

I use a Bluetooth OBD2 and the Torque app. I can see the Soot% jump to 100 and watch the DPF temp go over 1000 and have it flash at me.

When this happened last time I had just pulled in my driveway. I was able to sit in my driveway and and hold the RPMs with my foot right at 2-2.5k for a few minutes and the Regen completed successfully. I honestly didn't think it was going to work, but here we are.

I'll have to keep an eye on the idle next time too.

You obviously moved the transmission to park for the completion of the regen cycle. Did you verify that the soot level dropped to 8% when it stopped the cycle? The reason I ask is that I've been lead to believe that if you stop and move the transmission into park, the regen cycle stops no matter what the soot level is at.

I'll duplicate your stop-n-park process at sometime in the future, but for now I'm concentrating on collecting data without stopping. Without any codes, the dealership is lost. I'm working to get some time with a tech rep to explain why my DPF fills up so quickly.

 

[CO2Wrangler]

You obviously moved the transmission to park for the completion of the regen cycle. Did you verify that the soot level dropped to 8% when it stopped the cycle? The reason I ask is that I've been lead to believe that if you stop and move the transmission into park, the regen cycle stops no matter what the soot level is at.

I'll duplicate your stop-n-park process at sometime in the future, but for now I'm concentrating on collecting data without stopping. Without any codes, the dealership is lost. I'm working to get some time with a tech rep to explain why my DPF fills up so quickly.

Yes and yes.

Was in Park and it returned to 9% upon completion.

If your EGR is clogged then more of the nasty is going to head straight to the DPF. Might be worth pulling that tube to take a look like a few others have done.

It seems that you can get more or less soot buildup depending on the oil you use as well.

 

[47Jeepster]

Yes and yes.

Was in Park and it returned to 9% upon completion.

If your EGR is clogged then more of the nasty is going to head straight to the DPF. Might be worth pulling that tube to take a look like a few others have done.

It seems that you can get more or less soot buildup depending on the oil you use as well.

Thanks for the response on the transmission.

I understand that it isn't the DPF that is the cause, but something upstream. Only one oil change at 6,000 miles. Done at the dealer (Jeep Wave) and the receipt says 68524020AA oil installed. Asked Benny to verify that that's the proper oil for my VIN.

The MAP sensor and the EGR tube are on my radar ... good reminder.

 

[CO2Wrangler]

Thanks for the response on the transmission.

I understand that it isn't the DPF that is the cause, but something upstream. Only one oil change at 6,000 miles. Done at the dealer (Jeep Wave) and the receipt says 68524020AA oil installed. Asked Benny to verify that that's the proper oil for my VIN.

The MAP sensor and the EGR tube are on my radar ... good reminder.

Worth mentioning that I had one of the nox sensors fail on me under 15k miles. I didn't get limp mode or any of that but had a CEL and fixed under warranty.

Wouldn't hurt to go through the "ensuring all the fuses and relays are seated" routine and seriously eyeballing the aux battery. It's not a fix-all but when things start throwing crazy codes and limp mode, those 2 things are typically what get suggested to check first.

 

[47Jeepster]

Did the fuse check on delivery of the Jeep. Lived through three main and two aux battery failures on my 2018, so do know that can be a problem. Build date was two years ago ... about the right age for a failure here in Arizona.

Today's vehicles have become so complicated that if a code doesn't show up dealer mechanics are lost. Frustrating.

 

[Wrangler man]

You obviously moved the transmission to park for the completion of the regen cycle. Did you verify that the soot level dropped to 8% when it stopped the cycle? The reason I ask is that I've been lead to believe that if you stop and move the transmission into park, the regen cycle stops no matter what the soot level is at.

I'll duplicate your stop-n-park process at sometime in the future, but for now I'm concentrating on collecting data without stopping. Without any codes, the dealership is lost. I'm working to get some time with a tech rep to explain why my DPF fills up so quickly.

Have the iDash set for notification when region is active. Have witnessed active regens on and off the trail around town and on the highway. I always back into parking spots. Twice accidentally the regen in was interrupted buy me. Once I put the Jeep into reverse mode then into park. Another time shutting down while on the trail to climb out to assess the next obstacle. Both times caught the active alert out of the corner of my eye on the idash just a microsecond before shutting down. Of course I immediately tried to recover the regen cycle by starting the vehicle again. Both times no success with the soot level stuck at 100% for days and miles, with every minute and every mile anticipating a active regen to resume. Each time wishing I didn't even have the idash to notify me. Since ownership and now with 35k it always seems to redo itself and eventually regen. I hate the waiting and anticipation of that moment. Never had this type of anxiety that I do with this extremely temperamental regen,exhaust, smog, electrical, and (don't get me started on exact torque for the oil filter, ...lol) Gremlin Nightmare. Love the JL but compared to my last JK what an engineering fiasco it has been.
Will pay close attention to that RPM indicator. What I have noticed other than the obvious I Dash indicator was the voltage. There are so many electrical Gremlins in this over engineered electronic JL that I keep a close eye on the oem voltage screen on my dash. What I have observed is the voltage will go to 14.0 or 14.1 fairly steadily during the whole regen. Then dropping back down to its normal 13 something fluctuating readings.

 

[47Jeepster]

1) Have the iDash set for notification when region is active. ...

2) Both times no success with the soot level stuck at 100% for days and miles, with every minute and every mile anticipating a active regen to resume. ...

3) What I have noticed other than the obvious I Dash indicator was the voltage. There are so many electrical Gremlins in this over engineered electronic JL that I keep a close eye on the oem voltage screen on my dash. What I have observed is the voltage will go to 14.0 or 14.1 fairly steadily during the whole regen. Then dropping back down to its normal 13 something fluctuating readings.

1) My iDash simply flashes back and forth between Active and Passive ... thus sending me an alert every few seconds. That's why the transition to using 1000 degrees F as the clue to alert me. I'll attach a video of it popping back and forth between Off and Passive ... think it's four times in five seconds.

2) Are you sure the DPF Soot Load percent (DPF SL) was at 100% and not the DPF Regen Trigger percent (DPF RG)? When the soot load is low they follow each other, but when the soot load gets high the trigger percent will reach 100% before the soot load percent hits 80%. It's like the Jeep says that it is time, we just need to get up to an 80% soot load.

3) Hmmm. Haven't thought about following the voltage changes. I have voltage on screen 1, but when the regen cycle starts I switch over to screen 2 which contains regen info. Have to add it to the recorded data to view after the fact.

BTW ... if you find yourself in the limp mode, use the manual shifting mode to partially disable the computer control. It'll get you off the trail or to the nearest dealer. I've been on the highway doing 70mph both times when mine threw a code and started depowering ... pulled over for a stop/start cycle ... and a prayer. Waited for a large gap in traffic and used manual to slowly get up to speed and get to some place safer.

 

[47Jeepster]

Seems I did record battery voltage for the regen cycle shown above. Battery voltage stayed at ~13.8 to 13.9 volts ... before, during, and after the regen cycle. Notice how the DPF input temp was hotter than the output temp during the build up to maximum. Not sure what happened during max regen. But, as soon as the regen was complete, the inlet temp dropped off and the DPF started bleeding off heat ... ie inlet temp was lower than outlet temp. This chart should convince you to run the Jeep for a few minutes after the cycle is complete to let the DPF cool off ... and the turbo.

 

[Wrangler man]

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[CO2Wrangler]

1) My iDash simply flashes back and forth between Active and Passive ... thus sending me an alert every few seconds. That's why the transition to using 1000 degrees F as the clue to alert me. I'll attach a video of it popping back and forth between Off and Passive ... think it's four times in five seconds.

2) Are you sure the DPF Soot Load percent (DPF SL) was at 100% and not the DPF Regen Trigger percent (DPF RG)? When the soot load is low they follow each other, but when the soot load gets high the trigger percent will reach 100% before the soot load percent hits 80%. It's like the Jeep says that it is time, we just need to get up to an 80% soot load.

3) Hmmm. Haven't thought about following the voltage changes. I have voltage on screen 1, but when the regen cycle starts I switch over to screen 2 which contains regen info. Have to add it to the recorded data to view after the fact.

BTW ... if you find yourself in the limp mode, use the manual shifting mode to partially disable the computer control. It'll get you off the trail or to the nearest dealer. I've been on the highway doing 70mph both times when mine threw a code and started depowering ... pulled over for a stop/start cycle ... and a prayer. Waited for a large gap in traffic and used manual to slowly get up to speed and get to some place safer.

Based on what you wrote here about both times being over 70mph and getting into limp mode I wonder if your issues are coolant/oil temp related. If you can monitor turbo temps you need to keep them under 1300, 1200 if possible. The guys who've had deratimg on the highway are almost always due to temps (coolant/oil) but ultimately caused by turbo temps bleeding into both (in my opinion).

 

[azbobver]

I have a ‘21 and have had an iDash since January. I’ve only seen PAS regen status which happens when the soot level gets to 80 or high 70’s. The regen takes about 10 minutes while driving in town and the soot level is at 9 when it completes. I’ve never seen the regen status bounce from PAS to ACT.

I have had to interrupt the regen just a few times. I’ve consciously tried to keep driving when I see the PAS regen status.

 

[47Jeepster]

... The regen takes about 10 minutes while driving in town and the soot level is at 9 when it completes. I’ve never seen the regen status bounce from PAS to ACT. ...

Remember that I'm a four regen expert. Installed my iDash last month. So, it's fair to question how I read the data.

It seems like the regen takes 10~12 minutes regardless of the vehicle speed. Mine hits around 600~650 degrees F at 45mph and around 800~850 degrees F at 70mph. Think the dumping of fuel into the exhaust stream quickly overshadows the ~150 degree difference because of speed. The big problem (for time calculations) is deciding when the regen cycle starts. The ending is very close to where the inlet and outlet temps cross, so that's easy. I've been using the time when the input temp curve makes a rapid vertical move.

 

[47Jeepster]

Based on what you wrote here about both times being over 70mph and getting into limp mode I wonder if your issues are coolant/oil temp related. If you can monitor turbo temps you need to keep them under 1300, 1200 if possible. The guys who've had deratimg on the highway are almost always due to temps (coolant/oil) but ultimately caused by turbo temps bleeding into both (in my opinion).

I've always monitored my coolant/oil temps on the dash and haven't approached limiting temps. Oil temps have stayed in the 210~220 degrees on the highway ... maybe up to 240 climbing the mountains here in AZ. But, I haven't seen 265 degrees ever. That's with 37" tires also ... computer reprogrammed by the dealer.

I will add turbo temps to the iDash (page 3) and record them until I develop a feel for where they settle ... thanks for the suggestion.

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