Question for actual jeep technicians

[yokramer]

^^^^
THIS

A more experienced "mechanic" can get a 4.0 hr job done in less time, maybe 3.0 hrs. They get two 4.0 hrs jobs done in 6 hours. They get paid 8 hours for 6 hours of work. If they pick up another two hour job, they end up getting paid 10 hours in an eight hour day. They get paid for 2080 hours and work 1664...or in other words you and I get paid for working 2080 hours a year, no matter how hard we work. They can get paid for 2500 hours a year (or more), if they're willing to work harder than book time.

A less experienced mechanic is always working against the clock, a seasoned mechanic can make 20%, or more, than if they were hourly. A good mechanic likes book time (over being salary), if they can beat it, but we'd all like to get paid more, ammirite.

ETA: here's another way of esplainin' it: Flat Rate or Hourly

80hrs a week isnt uncommon if youre not just stuck with warranty work or diagnosing. My best day turning wrenches was 22hrs on a 6hr Saturday, that was a bunch of generic services, brake jobs, and a timing belt on a Miata.

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[AcesandEights]

Sure, I know techs that make six figures every year, but I didn't want it to sound like most/all techs do. I think those first handful of years chew up and spit out a lot of kids thinking they can make as much in a month as you do in a week, but they just aren't cut out for it. A good mechanic can definitely take a lot of coffee breaks, or make enough to have a house on a golf course if they want to. Can take a toll on the body though.

 

[BetterThanMine]

Seems like being paid by the job, versus by the hour, is not necessarily good for the customer, inasmuch as it can motivate rushing.

In an admittedly extreme example, imagine that you are getting a heart transplant, and the surgeon is paid a flat rate.

As a former Tech for Cadillac it causes a few things and I left the industry for these reasons.

1. The way they calculate the hours are bullshit. Straight, point blank bullshit. When they figure the time, the tools are already laid out and the car is already up in the air. They do multiple runs and avg or pick the best time.

So this doesnt take into account, getting the keys, the work order, pulling the vehicle in, lifting it, time spent at the parts counter or writing up a novel on the work they did before running the vehicle theough the fk'n car wash. It's fk'n rigged.

The dealer and the manufacturer dont want to pay and everything is your fault. Your fighting for your hours.

2. It causes mechanics to extrapolate from experience way to much. "Oh, the lock isn't working, well it was this before so it must be that again." Congrats, you did no diag, are wrong just wasted not only good parts, but also the customers time and made the shop look bad.

3. It causes some to sell extra shit. Not common in my experience, but it happens.

4. I've seen techs skip on replacing things such as torque yeilding bolts because parts didnt have them, they didnt want their time wasted aka money lost, the writers were rushing them.

It's not fair to customer or tech.

If flat rate actually paid honest diag and part replacment hours, the industry would much better off for the customers and techs. But the CEO needs another vacation home in the alps to woo his next fk so the tech get screwed.

 

[NBB]

Please post a copy of this estimate including make, model and year of vehicle and all details, on letterhead of dealership or service shop who supplied the estimate. There is more to this story...

Lol - they’re smart (and experienced) enough to not put that kind of sh!t in a document for the customer. Super-Rupair in Boulder CO - 2013 Outback 4 cyl. He had recently paid them $150 labor to swap the cabin air filter - a 3 minute job, but they told him they had to disassemble the dash - so they probably figured they could step it up!

 

[alphawolff]

So who gets the money when the customer is overcharged by 10x the book time? This happened to a friend recently - quoted $5k for valve cover gaskets - a 2 hr job for this vehicle. Less egregious inflation and ripoff tactics have become par around here - you’ll rarely be quoted proper book hours anymore, it’s more become a game of how much they can possibly get. Often this quote arrives a day or two after the vehicle has been sitting in the shop and taking it somewhere else for another quote is unlikely.

The dealer is getting the money. The tech might be getting $200 of that 5k. My own shops door rate has SKYROCKETED to nearly $300 an hour this year. People are still paying it! We were told the increased door rate was to allow them to give us a raise, but that never materialized. I live in an incredibly high COL area, and this door rate has become normal with all the dealerships around me. It blows my mind that people still line up to bring their vehicles to us. The cost of the average repair as ballooned to an insane degree these last few years.

Lol - they’re smart (and experienced) enough to not put that kind of sh!t in a document for the customer. Super-Rupair in Boulder CO - 2013 Outback 4 cyl. He had recently paid them $150 labor to swap the cabin air filter - a 3 minute job, but they told him they had to disassemble the dash - so they probably figured they could step it up!

A lot of dealers are having their parts department sell parts at 30-50% OVER MSRP these days. It inflates the cost of repair big time. It isn't all just labor. The advisor has to literally negotiate with parts to get things at MSRP sometimes to help get the job sold. It's crazy.

 

[AcesandEights]

I used to work for a large dealer network and what @alphawolff said about parts is true. For a long time now, Lithia, as an example dealer, has had a part price matrix that included selling parts for well over MSRP. It inflates the parts department revenue, blows up the service department expenditure, so service passes that cost (possibly with an additional mark up) to the customer. If you ever wanted to pay more than necessary for something, use the dealer service department. If you want to pay even more, make sure it was a dealership owned by Lithia, haha!!!

 

[alphawolff]

I used to work for a large dealer network and what @alphawolff said about parts is true. For a long time now, Lithia, as an example dealer, has had a part price matrix that included selling parts for well over MSRP. It inflates the parts department revenue, blows up the service department expenditure, so service passes that cost (possibly with an additional mark up) to the customer. If you ever wanted to pay more than necessary for something, use the dealer service department. If you want to pay even more, make sure it was a dealership owned by Lithia, haha!!!

Lithia is one of the worst dealer chains in the entire industry to work for. Corporate'd to all hell.

 

[Chris A]

Last time I was charged 800.00 to diagnose 8k in repairs. 1057.00 to replace a battery! I let them do about 2500.00 to get MIL resolved bought a battery at Walmart ( 4 year replacement) for 180.00 and changed it myself in twenty minutes. Balance of work was done at independent shop for about 200 or deemed unnecessary. Mysteriously a hose came loose shortly after getting it out of dealership but was fine for the previous 75k miles. Now that dealership is sending out service reminders. The only thing guarantee is I won’t be back unless it is major warranty repair. I thought dealerships learned years ago they needed to be competitive. I work I. The HVAC industry and I know what kind of BS goes on with service and wouldn’t work for a residential service provider for nothing. The only techs who make the money are the salesman in disguise. No honesty or pride is ruining this country.

 

[alphawolff]

Last time I was charged 800.00 to diagnose 8k in repairs. 1057.00 to replace a battery! I let them do about 2500.00 to get MIL resolved bought a battery at Walmart ( 4 year replacement) for 180.00 and changed it myself in twenty minutes. Balance of work was done at independent shop for about 200 or deemed unnecessary. Mysteriously a hose came loose shortly after getting it out of dealership but was fine for the previous 75k miles. Now that dealership is sending out service reminders. The only thing guarantee is I won’t be back unless it is major warranty repair. I thought dealerships learned years ago they needed to be competitive. I work I. The HVAC industry and I know what kind of BS goes on with service and wouldn’t work for a residential service provider for nothing. The only techs who make the money are the salesman in disguise. No honesty or pride is ruining this country.

Do know that for like ~95% of owners a simple battery change is beyond them. Most never open their own hood. If you're able to do repairs yourself I strongly suggest you do, you'll save buckets of money.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Do know that for like ~95% of owners a simple battery change is beyond them. Most never open their own hood. If you're able to do repairs yourself I strongly suggest you do, you'll save buckets of money.

The Jeep battery is so easy, some of these other modern vehicles though... My company car is a Ford escape. Needed a new battery, and even though they pay for it I was going to do it myself to save the time dealing with it. 1st step in removing the battery is, remove windshield wipers. Then upper cowl. Then lower cowl. My next step after looking at the process was call the dealer and drop it off with the fleet card. These engineers should be hung in the streets.

 

[BetterThanMine]

Do know that for like ~95% of owners a simple battery change is beyond them. Most never open their own hood. If you're able to do repairs yourself I strongly suggest you do, you'll save buckets of money.

I dont think its the repairs thats are beyond most people, its the diag.

In order to diag you gotta know how it works, then you gotta exercise some critical thinking to know what diagnostic path to go down.

Most of it really is just nuts and bolts when you get down to the actual wrenching... unless theres salt belt rust... then its hammers and torches.

 

[BetterThanMine]

The Jeep battery is so easy, some of these other modern vehicles though... My company car is a Ford escape. Needed a new battery, and even though they pay for it I was going to do it myself to save the time dealing with it. 1st step in removing the battery is, remove windshield wipers. Then upper cowl. Then lower cowl. My next step after looking at the process was call the dealer and drop it off with the fleet card. These engineers should be hung in the streets.

Wtf? Why not put it in the back behind a panel? Some might say under a back seat but thats a bad idea imo.

Sometimes I swear these decisions are just to get you at a dealer even if you dont have eff you money.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Wtf? Why not put it in the back behind a panel? Some might say under a back seat but thats a bad idea imo.

Sometimes I swear these decisions are just to get you at a dealer even if you dont have eff you money.

Same reason Jeep buried the useless Wrangler aux battery where it is

 

[Chris A]

Do know that for like ~95% of owners a simple battery change is beyond them. Most never open their own hood. If you're able to do repairs yourself I strongly suggest you do, you'll save buckets of money.

Agreed, this was on my Promaster with the FPT 3.0L I4 diesel. I needed a PVC filter change and had hurt my hand and wasn’t up to the task. The battery was dealership recommended service ( I had replaced it 2-3 times prior ) it would have been worth it to me to let them do it for a few hundred over the cost of the battery while in but all they earned was my suspicion of their greed. I believe they sabotaged the vehicle due to the issues found within about 1000 miles of them working on it. I kinda think this is a bit long on the distance but not the first time I have had a hose or line clamp or lock mysteriously come undone shortly after a visit to the dealer service dept. Being a mechanically inclined person who works on equipment it is hard to believe something was improperly done at the factory but managed to stay on for 30-75k and fail soon afterwards. In 2 of three events the failure was nowhere near the area or system worked on. See same issues in the HVAC industry with the worst technicians make the most $$$ due to the BS that goes on.

 

[AcesandEights]

Next time you (not a specific you, but a general you) get an estimate for repairs, swing by a place that sells tools. Deduct the part price from the total estimate, then spend that much, or some percentage of that, on tools. Do that once or twice, and you may never have to spend money at a repair shop again.

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