Off-roading 4xe? Questions...

[LCW]

Traded my JL a few months ago. Got a Bronco Badlands. Looking to maybe come back to the JL as I miss it. Thinking maybe 4xe.

Obviously the weight increase is not ideal for off-roading. Any other aspects?

Any out there that wheel their 4xe just as much as they did an ICE model?

Any trails that ban hybrids or EVs due to battery fire risks? (only asking since some local wheeling events I've been to mandate having a fire extinguisher, so that got me think - would an extinguisher even be effective for a full-on battery fire???)

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[DewHawk]

Traded my JL a few months ago. Got a Bronco Badlands. Looking to maybe come back to the JL as I miss it. Thinking maybe 4xe.

Obviously the weight increase is not ideal for off-roading. Any other aspects?

Any out there that wheel their 4xe just as much as they did an ICE model?

Any trails that ban hybrids or EVs due to battery fire risks? (only asking since some local wheeling events I've been to mandate having a fire extinguisher, so that got me think - would an extinguisher even be effective for a full-on battery fire???)

1) Great choice. Just be sure you’re aware of what you’re signing up for. The vast majority of owners don’t have issues with theirs, but some of us unfortunate few have had various different problems. Some of them are just plain old JL issues (ie: 12v battery fail, aux battery fail, etc) but the other hybrid issues can be real killers and put your jeep out of commission for months waiting on parts. As long as you’re aware it’s a POSSIBILITY then you’re gonna love the rewards.

2) These things don’t give a shit about the extra weight. Honestly, I’ve never been in a position thinking “I wish it was 600lbs lighter”. The Rubicon 4xe gets the same torque as a 392 and a better crawl ratio in 4L. Trust me, you won’t be thinking about the weight driving it.

3) I wheel mine as much as I can as do many others. The only real thing to watch out for is making sure ESC is disabled if you aren’t in 4L. These jeeps get kinda sensitive if you’re strolling around in 4H, 4H Auto or 2H without the driving assists turned off. I had mine throw a couple warning lights and failure messages at me coming down off Top of the World in Moab in 2H. It reset itself overnight in the hotel parking lot so it wasn’t a huge deal, just something to be aware of.

4) That’s actually a great question. I’m not aware of anything that’s been posted banning the 4xe’s use anywhere in particular. It’s proven itself year after year in the Rebelle Rally competition and Barlow Adventures in Arizona as a rental off roader. If there’s anywhere that’s banned it, I’d be surprised to be honest.

4.1) If the hybrid battery for whatever reason did ignite, you’d have to make sure you’re using the right type of extinguisher for it. ABC dry chemical and CO2 work just fine. It’s unrealistic to try and carry a foam or halon extinguisher around with you. The failure rate of these batteries is so low I’d be amazed if one actually did off road. The 4xe that caught fire and blew out the garage door of a home happened out here in Erie was never truly answered honestly by anyone involved and an official report still hasn’t been released clarifying what actually happened. The initial blame was fired at the 4xe battery as the culprit, but based on the images that were released showing the aftermath, it’s not clear exactly what happened or why it did because the pack itself looked to be mostly intact with minimal damage.

Anyway, probably more than you wanted to know but this is the reality of owning a 4xe these days. I’ve owned 2 of them now and still love it. Neither of them have had issues that are super crazy bad or disabling for long periods of time. My current one goes in for a few minor fixes late this month (assuming the trans leak I have is just a bad seal. There’s been so many that had poor casings from ZF that needed to be replaced, the odds aren’t exactly great for me).

If you aren’t looking for even the slightest chance of a failure at some point, I’d argue the JL isn’t for you at all regardless of the powertrain.

 

[PatriotX]

I wheel my 4xe pretty hard at times. This is an amazing machine.

Fire risk is a fear fabricated by those who don’t want to see the status quo upended. Insurance and fire safety data indicate you are 20 to 80 TIMES MORE LIKELY to experience a fire in a gas car.

You should always carry a fire extinguisher, in any vehicle.

I was cross shopping the 4xe with a Braptor, not unhappy with my choice at all; I came from a Trackhawk into this.

Bottom line, the 4xe is a capable off-reader with 375hp and 470ft/lb. Enjoy it.

 

[rock-rod]

This is a great thread! I just bought a 2022 Rubicon 4XE and so far, I love it! Most of my street driving is making short trips (usually less than 15 miles per trip) and the ability to run in full electric and then recharge with my home-installed class 2 charger makes a ton of sense.

I am super curious about how the ZF 8spd transmission works. My understanding is that there is no torque converter and instead, the transmission is equipped with a 'direct clutch' which is essentially a computer controlled wet clutch. I'd love to hear from others about how well this arrangement works with the trail gets chunky and you need maximum control over engine output to make for a smooth crawl. Is the gearing low enough to limit clutch slipping? I've seen a few videos where it appears the driver has a hard time keeping the jeep from launching itself over rocks when the clutch fully engages.

I am not new to rock crawling with a jeep. My last rig was an '85 CJ-7 with a 401, automatic, Atlas t-case and 1-ton axles w/42 in tires. I used to do a lot of extreme rock crawling. I have zero plans to put this new rig on those types of trails, but I would like to maybe run Poison Spider in Moab or Poughkeepsie Gulch in Colorado.

 

[Bzinsky]

I don’t have any rocks to crawl in NJ, but I have heard from others power modulation while low speed crawling over rocks is a challenge in the 4xe.

The 4xe is not really that unreliable. All my new american vehicles have had issues and recalls. The difference is how they are resolved. GMC = you drop off your vehicle, they give you a $80k denali no questions asked. You drop your jeep off, you don’t get a loaner because stellantis does not reimburse the dealers for the loaners. It makes the lack of knowledge of the techs and their parts delays a pain in the ass where as other manufacturers, who cares.

A battery fire in 2023 is far less likely than a gasoline fire. If it happens, you aren’t putting it out with a fire extinguisher.

When it comes to offroading, there is something the 4xe does that no other vehicle on the market can do and it is without question my favorite part of the vehicle that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve tried it. Doors off + roof off + off road + EV mode. It’s just the greatest thing ever and cleaning the interior is well worth the experience. I personally just pull my carpets and drain plugs for the summer and hose the whole interior down minus the dash.

 

[PatriotX]

This is a great thread! I just bought a 2022 Rubicon 4XE and so far, I love it! Most of my street driving is making short trips (usually less than 15 miles per trip) and the ability to run in full electric and then recharge with my home-installed class 2 charger makes a ton of sense.

I am super curious about how the ZF 8spd transmission works. My understanding is that there is no torque converter and instead, the transmission is equipped with a 'direct clutch' which is essentially a computer controlled wet clutch. I'd love to hear from others about how well this arrangement works with the trail gets chunky and you need maximum control over engine output to make for a smooth crawl. Is the gearing low enough to limit clutch slipping? I've seen a few videos where it appears the driver has a hard time keeping the jeep from launching itself over rocks when the clutch fully engages.

I am not new to rock crawling with a jeep. My last rig was an '85 CJ-7 with a 401, automatic, Atlas t-case and 1-ton axles w/42 in tires. I used to do a lot of extreme rock crawling. I have zero plans to put this new rig on those types of trails, but I would like to maybe run Poison Spider in Moab or Poughkeepsie Gulch in Colorado.

I did mixed trails out west, less focused on crawling. The throttle mapping is different under load, and required fewer inputs vs a gasser. Smoother inputs were rewarded over rocks rather than many smaller throttle adjustments.

Two- footing helps, but may have led to my only issue. A trans overheat warning came up at 13,000 feet elevation, and said I needed to either speed up to over 5mph or switch to 4lo. I stopped for 5 min and switched to 4lo, no further issues.

The 470 ft/lb makes for easy wheeling in most cases in 4hi

 

[GATORB8]

Wheeled all over the country. The extra weight is relatively low, in the trans and floorboard. A little learning curve on some minor differences in power application.

Never seen a trail with hybrid/EV restriction.

 

[LCW]

1) Great choice. Just be sure you’re aware of what you’re signing up for. The vast majority of owners don’t have issues with theirs, but some of us unfortunate few have had various different problems. Some of them are just plain old JL issues (ie: 12v battery fail, aux battery fail, etc) but the other hybrid issues can be real killers and put your jeep out of commission for months waiting on parts. As long as you’re aware it’s a POSSIBILITY then you’re gonna love the rewards.

2) These things don’t give a shit about the extra weight. Honestly, I’ve never been in a position thinking “I wish it was 600lbs lighter”. The Rubicon 4xe gets the same torque as a 392 and a better crawl ratio in 4L. Trust me, you won’t be thinking about the weight driving it.

3) I wheel mine as much as I can as do many others. The only real thing to watch out for is making sure ESC is disabled if you aren’t in 4L. These jeeps get kinda sensitive if you’re strolling around in 4H, 4H Auto or 2H without the driving assists turned off. I had mine throw a couple warning lights and failure messages at me coming down off Top of the World in Moab in 2H. It reset itself overnight in the hotel parking lot so it wasn’t a huge deal, just something to be aware of.

4) That’s actually a great question. I’m not aware of anything that’s been posted banning the 4xe’s use anywhere in particular. It’s proven itself year after year in the Rebelle Rally competition and Barlow Adventures in Arizona as a rental off roader. If there’s anywhere that’s banned it, I’d be surprised to be honest.

4.1) If the hybrid battery for whatever reason did ignite, you’d have to make sure you’re using the right type of extinguisher for it. ABC dry chemical and CO2 work just fine. It’s unrealistic to try and carry a foam or halon extinguisher around with you. The failure rate of these batteries is so low I’d be amazed if one actually did off road. The 4xe that caught fire and blew out the garage door of a home happened out here in Erie was never truly answered honestly by anyone involved and an official report still hasn’t been released clarifying what actually happened. The initial blame was fired at the 4xe battery as the culprit, but based on the images that were released showing the aftermath, it’s not clear exactly what happened or why it did because the pack itself looked to be mostly intact with minimal damage.

Anyway, probably more than you wanted to know but this is the reality of owning a 4xe these days. I’ve owned 2 of them now and still love it. Neither of them have had issues that are super crazy bad or disabling for long periods of time. My current one goes in for a few minor fixes late this month (assuming the trans leak I have is just a bad seal. There’s been so many that had poor casings from ZF that needed to be replaced, the odds aren’t exactly great for me).

If you aren’t looking for even the slightest chance of a failure at some point, I’d argue the JL isn’t for you at all regardless of the powertrain.

Thanks for the in-depth reply man. Much appreciated!

 

[lindaspins]

I don’t have any rocks to crawl in NJ, but I have heard from others power modulation while low speed crawling over rocks is a challenge in the 4xe.

The trick to throttle control in 4lo at slow speeds in the 4xe is to run in manual mode and run in 2nd-3rd most of the time- you'll rarely, if ever, need to drop down to 1st. The drawback to manual mode is that you can't run in Electric.
Second is the Selec-speed option, which will allow electric operation. I've found it kind of tricky but useful under select situations- but it still wants to keep going even when you're braking.

 

[kornface13]

I wheel mine all the time. You aren't even going to notice that extra weight. Many folks put far more weight on theirs in accessories. You'll be just fine. Also, rolling down a trail silently in electric mode is sooo much cooler than I would have thought it would be.

 

[BigMaCro]

I wheel mine!

 

[Mgg253]

Why would you want to off-road a Jeep? It might get scratches?

 

[dpwracing]

Wheels pretty well, but electric can be a little tricky. I like to put it in manual on rocks.

 

[redracer]

I'll echo what everyone else has said.... Using electric only in the rocks is a bit ... odd. I've found that by using the crawl control (used to be hill descent control) does help some.

But really in all electric mode, it likes to be stalled by whatever rock is in front of you, then it increases power/torque over the next second or two until you continue rolling. But, then it doesn't back that power level down and you launch over that rock usually bouncing hard off the back.

Like others have said, the workaround is to run in parallel hybrid mode of being in the M drive mode. This is awesome and even better than the regular gas models. It's just not the stone quiet ride of electric mode.

It's all software torque management issues. And they even trumpeted that the '24's have refined the off-road characteristics. I'm just hoping that these refinements make it back to us for a "Fix".

 

[wranglerbro]

I welcome the added weight of the 4xe when it comes to off-roading in the snow. In Colorado, the terrain changes so quickly that when I run into the frozen stuff, I’m glad it’s there.

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