No Collision warning system?

[Bearded_Dragon]

Yes, I too would argue if you aren't competent enough to drive a vehicle without any advanced safety monitoring systems doing most of the work for you, you shouldn't be driving at all. But alot of people on the road suck and that is the harsh reality. This seems like a no brainer. I just don't understand all of the hate, with no realistic reasons to oppose it, other than, "ELECTRONIC NANNIES ARE SCARY TO ME".

I was somewhat with you until you mentioned this part. I've been driving for 15 years and I've never caused an accident, never damaged someone's property, never had a ticket, drove 80,000lbs semi trucks, heavy machinery, raced cars, and none of these vehicles had anything more than ABS (many without), are you saying I'm incapable of safely driving a vehicle? No, of course not and there are plenty of other responsible drivers out there like me.

These are machines and will fail at some point. Autonomous is not 100% safe, it won't magically save puppies, kittens, ect. and there are situations where these vehicles will cause innocents to be hurt or killed. I agree that fully autonomous vehicles will be safer, especially in an environment where all other vehicles are autonomous, but we're not in that era yet. These semi-autonomous vehicles are not something I want on a vehicle that will be subject to being submerged in a few feet of water, very dusty environments, excessive vibrations, ect.

In the end I totally trust a machine way more than I trust a stranger behind a wheel. All the brainwashing/agenda pushing media here makes you think your main everyday fears are getting shot or having a man grab your junk, but in reality I don't know if I'll make the drive to work or home without someone hurting or killing me because they weren't paying attention, on drugs, ect. while driving.

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[MockBarbecue82]

I was somewhat with you until you mentioned this part. I've been driving for 15 years and I've never caused an accident, never damaged someone's property, never had a ticket, drove 80,000lbs semi trucks, heavy machinery, raced cars, and none of these vehicles had anything more than ABS (many without), are you saying I'm incapable of safely driving a vehicle? No, of course not and there are plenty of other responsible drivers out there like me.

That's not at all what we were saying. What you just rephrased is exactly what I meant. You can responsibly drive without advanced safety monitoring systems, as people have been doing since 1908. No problem here.

The agreement was that if you can't drive a low tech car from say the 60's, then you shouldn't be driving at all. Meaning, if you dont have the awareness or vision to understand your surroundings, then you have no business driving ANYTHING.

 

[Bearded_Dragon]

That's not at all what we were saying. What you just rephrased is exactly what I meant. You can responsibly drive without advanced safety monitoring systems, as people have been doing since 1908. No problem here.

The agreement was that if you can't drive a low tech car from say the 60's, then you shouldn't be driving at all. Meaning, if you dont have the awareness or vision to understand your surroundings, then you have no business driving ANYTHING.

LOL, sorry man I completely misread that.

 

[MockBarbecue82]

LOL, sorry man I completely misread that.

I figured that's all it was. It's all good.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

That's fair, I don't either. But I do not see it costing more than the small backup cam they just made mandatory.

That’s a gross underestimation IMO.

The tech/cost involved in adding a rear cam and monitor is a lot less, than adding the front camera(s) and other support systems (radar, lidar, etc), plus the electronic brain to calculate the objects & inputs / parameters and determine if an action is recommended/required/immediate and the modules that must tie into the steering, braking, etc

I see it costing much more than a backup cam, but how much more is debatable, and likely depends on the calibre of the brain and the level of the intervention.

With Side Air Curtains the IIHS/NHTSA released an industry estimate that it would cost manufacturers about $35 to implement. I would love to see a similar estimate for the AEB systems, as I suspect it would be significantly higher.

Again, not against the tech or its implementation, just being realistic about the challenges.

 

[MockBarbecue82]

That’s a gross underestimation IMO.

The tech/cost involved in adding a rear cam and monitor is a lot less, than adding the front camera(s) and other support systems (radar, lidar, etc), plus the electronic brain to calculate the objects & inputs / parameters and determine if an action is recommended/required/immediate and the modules that must tie into the steering, braking, etc

I see it costing much more than a backup cam, but how much more is debatable, and likely depends on the calibre of the brain and the level of the intervention.

With Side Air Curtains the IIHS/NHTSA released an industry estimate that it would cost manufacturers about $35 to implement. I would love to see a similar estimate for the AEB systems, as I suspect it would be significantly higher.

Again, not against the tech or its implementation, just being realistic about the challenges.

I'm talking braking only as far as the AEB mandate. So no steering overrides. The "electronic brain" is already there. It's just additional programming/coding. And then whatever the cost of the front sensor(s).

 

[Boatbuilder88]

I'm talking braking only as far as the AEB mandate. So no steering overrides. The "electronic brain" is already there. It's just additional programming/coding. And then whatever the cost of the front sensor(s).

Don't underestimate the cost of "just additional programming/coding." Also, there is significant testing required and a baked-in cost for additional legal exposure (which there certainly will be). Headline: "Jeep Wrangler safety system fails in pitch black icy conditions with a drunk behind the wheel. FCA held liable by jury."

 

[Spank]

Do you have factual evidence to support your ridiculous claim that it makes drivers MORE inattentive? I have real evidence to support its adoption.

Yeah. I drive. Every day. And I witness people that have their heads up their asses because they're paying attention to everything but the road, regardless of these safety features. Not once a week, not every couple of days. Every single day. I've got a dashcam I originally purchased for trail runs that has captured so much shitty driving, I could make a YouTube channel with daily content and not have enough time to release it all. Our highway LED signs are always spitting out some hokey message with a rhyme telling people to stop texting and pay attention to the road, followed by the number of traffic fatalities. That number goes up every single day, too.

"According to the IIHS research, equipping vehicles with both warning and autobraking systems reduced the rate of rear-end crashes by 39 percent and rear end crashes with injuries by 42 percent. That's an overall reduction in crashes by 12 percent and a reduction in injury crashes by 15 percent."

"NHTSA projected that the ensuing acceleration of the rollout of automatic emergency braking would prevent an estimated 28,000 collisions and 12,000 injuries."

And yet traffic fatalities continue to increase every year. They're up a lot here in Colorado.

Now, I'm not going to argue that these features haven't saved lives, but today's vehicles have way too many distractions. Instrument clusters with complex menus and nifty graphics you shouldn't be staring at, infotainment systems that work and interact like tablets you shouldn't be touching, and of course, people still using their cell phones. Drivers are content to play around with all these gadgets instead of driving because, don't worry, your car is packed with literal bells and whistles that tell you when to look up.

Here's an idiot who can't stay in a lane. I had to keep behind him because dashed lines are hard to see when you're not looking out your window.

Same deal here. This lady is gonna make a left turn where she shouldn't and has decided to brake in the middle of two opposing lanes because she missed the turn a little ways back.

I have no idea how this doofus managed to park his car on the median, but I guarantee you one thing he wasn't doing while he was driving was paying attention.

Here's an accident where one or both of these people apparently weren't paying attention to their surroundings.

Here's a rollover accident less than a half-mile from the one above. That's right. Same street, same day, same time. Guess what these people weren't doing while they were driving?

Here's a guy (in the distance) who apparently missed the part where the on-ramp ended and is now travelling at highway speeds on the shoulder.

Here are four people who aren't paying attention to the light that's been green for several seconds. Yeah, not just the two in front of us, but the two on the other side of the street as well. We all sat here for a good 10 seconds before honking horns because everyone here was busy not looking at the road. Everyone was frozen like some crazy episode of The Twilight Zone.

Granted, not all of these vehicles are modern and have these safety features, but these people are the reason they exist and in our current culture of drivers, they're the majority. You give people an incentive to be lazy, they're gonna be lazy. People should be watching the road, making sure they're staying in lanes, keeping their distance from vehicles, changing lanes appropriately, and making sure they're not cruise controlling into a ditch, not their cars.

I have clip after clip after clip of this shit. We don't need safer cars. We need smarter drivers.

 

[Phenomenon]

@Spank : What dashcam do you use?

 

[Spank]

@Spank : What dashcam do you use?

Blackvue DR750S. Not the best, but it's small enough to not be in the way. I've got some of the A-pillar plastic trim cut for the mounting piece and it's tucked up near the rear view mirror.

 

[MockBarbecue82]

Those are all great examples of idiot drivers, but most look NOT due to new tech causing people to be more inattentive. Stupid drivers are gonna be stupid. It's not the tech in their cars giving them an inflated sense of skill or making them overestimate how lazy they can be at the wheel. I'm just not buying that collision avoidance will give people an incentive to be lazy. It's their personality at the core, and if they need tech to be more careless, chances are they were ALREADY careless to begin with. So collision mitigation would actually be in all of our favor.

 

[Billy]

 

[Indio]

Terms such as scared or afraid, directed at persons critical of additional items such as collision warning, would seem more applicable to persons desiring those items. Some people have a certain level of fear operating motor vehicles, such that they have a greater desire for more items installed on vehicles to address their fears. (To what degree their fears are justified in the scheme of things is another question.)

Related to the backup camera, I wonder how robust that camera will be given the location? I am thinking of my kids playing basketball in my driveway. That ball sometimes is slamming into my Jeep. I suspect it broke my side mirror, and it hits the rear tire carrier area often. I wonder about the likelihood of the camera getting smashed/broken off?

 

[TroyBoy]

I'm against all these silly safety systems for the simple fact they make already inattentive drivers more inattentive. Most people suck at driving. Not some, not half, most.

Exactly why it is needed. You aren't supposed to rely on it and then not pay attention to your driving. You drive how you are supposed to drive normally and the system catches you if you make a mistake. Also, jeep could just automatically disable it in 4LO

 

[TroyBoy]

I'm just not buying that collision avoidance will give people an incentive to be lazy.

I agree, you could say the same thing about helmets, air bags, abs brakes too. Just to name a few.

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