Mods please delete

[TheRaven]

Is that how you remember it? It was quoted by someone in this thread even. You stated that 23' was going to have a new frame and tub and that the changes were substantial enough to be more than just a refresh. I'll give you the wrong year. I'll even accept that you saw something. But you have never admitted that you completely fabricated the story about there being more than a refresh. We have the proof now. There were a few minor changes, but they are so inconsequential that very few aftermarket parts are effected by it. Do I need to continue?

It's what happened. I went back and read through it before posting. As I explained to you before - I SAW THE BARE FRAME MYSELF. A guy who knows far more about building vehicles, and Jeeps for that matter, than either of us, pointed out exactly what was different. He did that because those changes were why he had a frame in the shop...he had to go over the frame and make sure that the new and redesigned accessories that FCA was partnering with his company to source, would work with the new frame. He was told it was the "2023 Rubicon" frame. In reality it was the 2023 Rubicon concept frame. Some of those accessories made production, some didn't. Now have I measured a 2024+ frame to verify that the changes on the frame I saw made it to regular production? No. I said that before. However some of the accessories did make it, and I don't think any of us would try to claim that FCA used a one-off frame for that 2023 "concept" that was pretty much the production 2024 Rubicon.

But here's the best part - you never saw the frame I saw, nor have you even bothered to look at a 2024+ frame to get your information. You just "know" i'm wrong. You "knew" it before the 2024 even existed. AND THEN YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CALL ME THE ONE WHO IS MAKING FALSE CLAIMS!. That's awesome.

So yes...

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[Ratbert]

Also known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[jeepingib]

It's what happened. I went back and read through it before posting. As I explained to you before - I SAW THE BARE FRAME MYSELF. A guy who knows far more about building vehicles, and Jeeps for that matter, than either of us, pointed out exactly what was different. He did that because those changes were why he had a frame in the shop...he had to go over the frame and make sure that the new and redesigned accessories that FCA was partnering with his company to source, would work with the new frame. He was told it was the "2023 Rubicon" frame. In reality it was the 2023 Rubicon concept frame. Some of those accessories made production, some didn't. Now have I measured a 2024+ frame to verify that the changes on the frame I saw made it to regular production? No. I said that before. However some of the accessories did make it, and I don't think any of us would try to claim that FCA used a one-off frame for that 2023 "concept" that was pretty much the production 2024 Rubicon.

But here's the best part - you never saw the frame I saw, nor have you even bothered to look at a 2024+ frame to get your information. You just "know" i'm wrong. You "knew" it before the 2024 even existed. AND THEN YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CALL ME THE ONE WHO IS MAKING FALSE CLAIMS!. That's awesome.

So yes...

Don't swallow the hook too hard....

Tell ya what. I will do. I will eagerly accept that you saw something, never actually argued against that. And that your buddy told you something that maybe wasn't 100% accurate, through no fault of his own. But the proof is out. The Jeeps are in peoples driveways, at the dealership, on the road. The changes were minor enough that parts are interchangeable. It is, and always has been just a refresh. Not some grand change like you were trying to get people excited about. You were wrong in your estimation of it, and I called you on it back then, and it holds true now. Before long some other loser will claim to have inside information about the next Wrangler again. You aren't special, never have been.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I TOLD YOU WHAT I SAW!!!! THAT'S IT!!!!

I shared something I learned, and you took it like I was insulting your mother. It's insane. Furthermore, you went off complaining "I had no proof" and I was "factually wrong" but YOU HAVE NO IDEA YOURSELF!!!!

How you can't see how ridiculous your crusade is is unfathomable to me, but that's why I say we need to drop it. I'm not going to "concede" that something I witnessed myself was wrong. I know what I saw. So you need to just move on.

You literally stated all new frame and tub? There are 2024s everywhere and not one visible change (the grill and dash aren't part of the tub)? You even held there were frame changes for tire clearance but I can't find any difference even with a tape measure. Is there a micrometer difference somewhere? And you saw that with the naked eye declaring all new frame and yet can't point to 1 spot that's actually different? I'm confused.

 

[John VonJeep]

Man, this thread used to be fun.

 

[TheRaven]

Don't swallow the hook too hard....

Tell ya what. I will do. I will eagerly accept that you saw something, never actually argued against that. And that your buddy told you something that maybe wasn't 100% accurate, through no fault of his own. But the proof is out. The Jeeps are in peoples driveways, at the dealership, on the road. The changes were minor enough that parts are interchangeable. It is, and always has been just a refresh. Not some grand change like you were trying to get people excited about. You were wrong in your estimation of it, and I called you on it back then, and it holds true now. Before long some other loser will claim to have inside information about the next Wrangler again. You aren't special, never have been.

LOL still can't resist being childish I see...

But you get right to the point i've been trying to hammer into you since this started. What this really comes down to is that you and I have different definitions of what constitutes a "refresh". I've said it before - if they have to make a new frame (and yes, even the minor changes to the 2024 frame mean they had to make a new frame), IN MY OPINION that is more than a refresh. I definitely see your point of view - you look at the 2024+ Wrangler and say "those changes are small, that's a refresh". I get it. I just don't agree.

SO THAT'S IT...THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING ME AROUND AND HOUNDING ME ABOUT FOR THREE YEARS!!! Your entire gripe boils down to our difference in what constitutes a refresh!

And on one thing you said we definitely agree - i'm not special. I've told you that before. I just know when to drop a pedantic argument, like an adult. You (and the other blocked one we aren't mentioning for some reason) clearly don't.

 

[jeepingib]

Man, this thread used to be fun.

Still is if you are into schadenfreude.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Just to help get this to over a 100 pages. In grade school I witnessed firsthand what I was sure was a UFO. I was 1000% convinced of it at the time. I can concede what I witnessed myself was wrong. As you grow up and mature you’ll find out a lot of things you were 100% sure of were wrong. I can even say the words out loud. Try it with me. “You know it turns out I was wrong”

If one thing about human nature is clearly established, especially with the advent of social media, it's that people will go to the ends of the earth to avoid having to utter that phrase.

Doesn't matter how overwhelming the evidence. Once someone has latched onto something, trying to change their mind just causes them to entrench themselvsles further and further.

You can wish for them to do it but...

 

[autotragic]

Don't swallow the hook too hard....

Tell ya what. I will do. I will eagerly accept that you saw something, never actually argued against that. And that your buddy told you something that maybe wasn't 100% accurate, through no fault of his own. But the proof is out. The Jeeps are in peoples driveways, at the dealership, on the road. The changes were minor enough that parts are interchangeable. It is, and always has been just a refresh. Not some grand change like you were trying to get people excited about. You were wrong in your estimation of it, and I called you on it back then, and it holds true now. Before long some other loser will claim to have inside information about the next Wrangler again. You aren't special, never have been.

Reminds me when I was younger and I had a buddy whose dad always made outlandish claims about random stuff. Like ASROC stood for get your ass behind a rock because it was a nuclear bomb or some nonsense. When it was actually anti-submarine rocket it was a real thing but he made these outlandish claims about it and he went on and on about lots of other stuff too. Anyway after a while you learn that those people are really just bullshiting you to make themselves feel better or some other nonsense I don't know and you learn not to take them seriously anymore.

 

[jeepingib]

LOL still can't resist being childish I see...

But you get right to the point i've been trying to hammer into you since this started. What this really comes down to is that you and I have different definitions of what constitutes a "refresh". I've said it before - if they have to make a new frame (and yes, even the minor changes to the 2024 frame mean they had to make a new frame), IN MY OPINION that is more than a refresh. I definitely see your point of view - you look at the 2024+ Wrangler and say "those changes are small, that's a refresh". I get it. I just don't agree.

SO THAT'S IT...THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING ME AROUND AND HOUNDING ME ABOUT FOR THREE YEARS!!! Your entire gripe boils down to our difference in what constitutes a refresh!

And on one thing you said we definitely agree - i'm not special. I've told you that before. I just know when to drop a pedantic argument, like an adult. You (and the other blocked one we aren't mentioning for some reason) clearly don't.

There have been frame revisions for every year, sometimes more than one a year.

 

[yokramer]

Man, this thread used to be fun.

Is this BBQ?

 

[John VonJeep]

Still is if you are into schadenfreude.

 

[jeepingib]

Reminds me when I was younger and I had a buddy whose dad always made outlandish claims about random stuff. Like ASROC stood for get your ass behind a rock because it was a nuclear bomb or some nonsense. When it was actually anti-submarine rocket it was a real thing but he made these outlandish claims about it and he went on and on about lots of other stuff too. Anyway after a while you learn that those people are really just bullshiting you to make themselves feel better or some other nonsense I don't know and you learn not to take them seriously anymore.

Oh, I definitely don't take Kevin seriously anymore. This is just entertainment at this point. Dance monkey dance. What BS will it be this time?

 

[Terrymo]

TIL typing in all caps with lots of exclamation points makes it true.

 

[TheRaven]

You literally stated all new frame and tub?

I did. I said "all new frame". Not tub. And here is one area where I will concede (once more), that in hindsight, I should have used different wording. At that time, we were speculating (hoping really) that the Hurricane V6 might make it into the JL. And that's why I brought up the new frame that I saw...because to me it looked like putting 2+2 together - new engine coming, JL is getting a new (or modified...whatever) frame, MAYBE THIS IS AN INDICATOR THAT THE JL IS GETTING THE NEW MOTOR?! If they're changing that then what else might be changing?! The fact that to me, when you have to re-profile frame rails, that means you have a NEW FRAME, with all those other enticing details pushed me into the "all-new" mindset.

But this isn't new...i've stated all this before. This still comes down to a difference in wording...that we are still debating three years later.

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