Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[CorvZ061]

I'm just basing that on the 2024 stories. Check out the Facebook Clutch Recall page. Just too many horror stories.

I've been following that group for a while, I've only seen one person with software issues on a 2024 gladiator. Mine has been flawless, so far. I wouldn't worry about too much, IF mine gives an issue I'll replace it with McLeod and move on. I've run their clutches in several high powered vehicles as well in a buggy, I trust their clutches.

Sponsored

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

IF mine gives an issue I'll replace it with McLeod and move on. I've run their clutches in several high powered vehicles as well in a buggy, I trust their clutches.

Unfortunately, it’s not that easy. This thread has nothing with clutches and everything to do with poorly designed hydraulics. One reservoir for brakes and clutch plus a terrible plastic slave with the bleeder in a nonsensical location. I’d bet my left nut that McLeod would fare no better. In fact, aren’t they the one with a hydraulic throw out bearing that fails in spectacularly messy fashion?

 

[Steve104]

Unfortunately, it’s not that easy. This thread has nothing with clutches and everything to do with poorly designed hydraulics. One reservoir for brakes and clutch plus a terrible plastic slave with the bleeder in a nonsensical location. I’d bet my left nut that McLeod would fare no better. In fact, aren’t they the one with a hydraulic throw out bearing that fails in spectacularly messy fashion?

Would it be fair to say that the hydraulics are adequate (maybe just barely so) for the stock clutch and flywheel setup for which they were designed, but not for the heavier ACT or South Bend setups?

 

[Actman]

As I mentioned before, if the clutch engagement/disengagement point in the pedal travel is good (close to the middle or higher), then it is traveling adequately and the hydraulics are not the problem.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

As I mentioned before, if the clutch engagement/disengagement point in the pedal travel is good (close to the middle or higher), then it is traveling adequately and the hydraulics are not the problem.

Welp, Southbend is not immune to this issue: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...periences-south-bend-dual-disc-review.142418/

That aside, my symptoms are worsening. Two years and about 11,000 miles on my ACT JP6.

@Actman I’m also noticing engagement is now very close to the floor. It’s been slowly getting closer and closer. Hydraulics?

 

[BHank0688]

Welp, Southbend is not immune to this issue: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...periences-south-bend-dual-disc-review.142418/

That aside, my symptoms are worsening. Two years and about 11,000 miles on my ACT JP6.

@Actman I’m also noticing engagement is now very close to the floor. It’s been slowly getting closer and closer. Hydraulics?

Have you tried to bleed the system to see if anything changes? Without any proof, I’m convinced these things have some hydraulic issues. I’m not saying they aren’t strong enough to handle the heavier springs in the aftermarket clutches either.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Have you tried to bleed the system to see if anything changes? Without any proof, I’m convinced these things have some hydraulic issues. I’m not saying they aren’t strong enough to handle the heavier springs in the aftermarket clutches either.

I haven’t done anything. Will need to crawl under to inspect the slave to see if there is any evidence of weeping, but it’s more likely to leak inside where I can’t see. I’ll also check the fluid level under the hood.

 

[BHank0688]

I haven’t done anything. Will need to crawl under to inspect the slave to see if there is any evidence of weeping, but it’s more likely to leak inside where I can’t see. I’ll also check the fluid level under the hood.

Ok, let me know what you find. And good luck.

 

[Actman]

Welp, Southbend is not immune to this issue: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...periences-south-bend-dual-disc-review.142418/

That aside, my symptoms are worsening. Two years and about 11,000 miles on my ACT JP6.

@Actman I’m also noticing engagement is now very close to the floor. It’s been slowly getting closer and closer. Hydraulics?

A low engagement would definitely contribute to shifting issues. Provided the fluid level is okay, there is no reason for the engagement to become lower unless there is air in the system or a failing master cylinder.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Ok, let me know what you find. And good luck.

I have an appointment with a new [to me] shop on Wednesday. Unfortunately, my trusted mechanic of over 15 years retired this month. He installed my ACT in June 2023 and referred me to this new place. Some of his employees move over there and he says they're a great shop.

I put a powerful light against my master cylinder and fluid level looks ok, I think. No obvious signs of slave leaking, either, though I think if it was letting fluid out it'd be more likely to collect inside the bell housing on the clutch fork and not on the outside.

I notice that things definitely degrade with use (heat?), meaning when I start a dive after Jeep sat overnight it feels good. After 30-40 minutes of city driving (i.e. lots of shifting), 1st becomes more difficult to engage at stops. The last 10% of pedal travel when disengaging the clutch (pushing pedal to floor) starts to feel firmer than normal, and maybe even a little mushy/crunchy.

I've asked this new shop to start by checking fluid level (because I find it difficult to make out even with a bright light) and removing/inspecting the slave. I actually have a spare, brand new slave on hand that I got back when the ACT was installed. Finally, I asked that they bleed regardless of what they see with fluid level and slave condition. Obviously if they replace the slave they will have to bleed.

Anyhow, I'll report back this time next week.

Oh, not sure if tis is a forum member, but this video was enlightening. Probably already shared somewhere in these 42 pages! I don't have the time or patience to do this myself, but appreciate understanding the process.

 

[BHank0688]

I have an appointment with a new [to me] shop on Wednesday. Unfortunately, my trusted mechanic of over 15 years retired this month. He installed my ACT in June 2023 and referred me to this new place. Some of his employees move over there and he says they're a great shop.

I put a powerful light against my master cylinder and fluid level looks ok, I think. No obvious signs of slave leaking, either, though I think if it was letting fluid out it'd be more likely to collect inside the bell housing on the clutch fork and not on the outside.

I notice that things definitely degrade with use (heat?), meaning when I start a dive after Jeep sat overnight it feels good. After 30-40 minutes of city driving (i.e. lots of shifting), 1st becomes more difficult to engage at stops. The last 10% of pedal travel when disengaging the clutch (pushing pedal to floor) starts to feel firmer than normal, and maybe even a little mushy/crunchy.

I've asked this new shop to start by checking fluid level (because I find it difficult to make out even with a bright light) and removing/inspecting the slave. I actually have a spare, brand new slave on hand that I got back when the ACT was installed. Finally, I asked that they bleed regardless of what they see with fluid level and slave condition. Obviously if they replace the slave they will have to bleed.

Anyhow, I'll report back this time next week.

Oh, not sure if tis is a forum member, but this video was enlightening. Probably already shared somewhere in these 42 pages! I don't have the time or patience to do this myself, but appreciate understanding the process.

I get a ratcheting noise , along with the crunching sound after the jeep is warmed up. It’s quiet and smooth when cold/ sitting over night. No real change in how the Jeep shifts. I changed the fluid, just process of elimination. Never let the reservoir go dry (wasn’t planning to bleed it since it had good engagement point before fluid change), but after getting all new clean fluid from the slave bleeder my pedal engaged almost at the floor so I knew somehow air got in. I know doesn’t make sense but I know that reservoir never got emptied below an inch, yes on the back side that feeds the clutch assembly. I bled it with the mighty vac at the slave. Also pressed and held pedal and opened slave bleeder. I did both processes a lot of times and with rear of the jeep jacked way up in the air. Helped some but pedal still wasn’t what it was right before I swapped fluid. Tried the reverse pressure bleed at reservoir with the mightyvac. 2 nights in a row, like in that video . The gauge never moved. So should be no air in the system or leaks. But still it wasn’t right. So I took the slave out and held it at an angle so the bleeder was the high point and gravity bled it for idk how long, but wasted a lot of fluid. That got my pedal feel back to how it was / how I believe it should be. But that annoying noise / feel is still there only after warming up. I’ve read up about possibilities of the slave seals maybe allow a small amount of air in , but never leaking (wasn’t Jeep specific just in general). That seems far fetched to me but I’m not that smart. I also question if the fluid gets too hot being that close to the cat, maybe causing the slave seals to swell, maybe causing my noise/ feel issue. Yeah I’ve gone down the rabbit hole. I can get a bore scope in the inspection plate on the bellhousing by the motor and can see all the moving/ working parts of the clutch with it. Can even have someone push the clutch pedal and I watch everything working smoothly (when cold, haven’t tried all that when warm, yet)… and good luck reading all that because I didn’t even feel like going back to proofread it lol.

 

[SadRobot]

I have an appointment with a new [to me] shop on Wednesday. Unfortunately, my trusted mechanic of over 15 years retired this month. He installed my ACT in June 2023 and referred me to this new place. Some of his employees move over there and he says they're a great shop.

I put a powerful light against my master cylinder and fluid level looks ok, I think. No obvious signs of slave leaking, either, though I think if it was letting fluid out it'd be more likely to collect inside the bell housing on the clutch fork and not on the outside.

I notice that things definitely degrade with use (heat?), meaning when I start a dive after Jeep sat overnight it feels good. After 30-40 minutes of city driving (i.e. lots of shifting), 1st becomes more difficult to engage at stops. The last 10% of pedal travel when disengaging the clutch (pushing pedal to floor) starts to feel firmer than normal, and maybe even a little mushy/crunchy.

I've asked this new shop to start by checking fluid level (because I find it difficult to make out even with a bright light) and removing/inspecting the slave. I actually have a spare, brand new slave on hand that I got back when the ACT was installed. Finally, I asked that they bleed regardless of what they see with fluid level and slave condition. Obviously if they replace the slave they will have to bleed.

Anyhow, I'll report back this time next week.

Oh, not sure if tis is a forum member, but this video was enlightening. Probably already shared somewhere in these 42 pages! I don't have the time or patience to do this myself, but appreciate understanding the process.

This is @Gator Overland's video and he did a great job.
Until he made that there was no other video that showed replacing the slave on a JL.

 

[Cutterone]

Same here, 2021 Sahara six speed. I tried to get ahead of the impending clutch issues several years ago, put in a CF2 about 40,000 miles ago, now I am having the issues with getting into reverse and first and such as described in this thread. Took it to a transmission shop who scooped it and said there was a lot of asbestos like debris in the oil, but also said I’m gonna need a new clutch which after reading this thread I don’t think is true. Since they messed with it, it’s actually been shifting better, but after having driven nothing but manuals my whole life I’m this close to trading in on a 25 Willys with the eight speed auto that I’ve heard nothing but absolute praise for and be done with it, I don’t have the time or patience to mess around with transmission that doesn’t work as it should, this should’ve never been an issue to begin with if Jeep just put in a proper standard clutch from the beginning

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I have an appointment with a new [to me] shop on Wednesday. Unfortunately, my trusted mechanic of over 15 years retired this month. He installed my ACT in June 2023 and referred me to this new place. Some of his employees move over there and he says they're a great shop.

OK, just back from the new shop. They were great! The place is immaculate, they hired a few techs from my old mechanics shop, and the bill was very reasonable.

Anyway...

They called a couple hours after I dropped off and said they'd bled it and that there were bubbles. So @Actman was spot-on. Told me it felt much better, but also "The fluid is very, very dark. Like black." That explains why I was having trouble making out the level even with a powerful shop light pressed against the reservoir.

I authorized a flush and fill and I assume they had to bleed again after that. (The work order says "complete brake fluid flush and fill," but I have to assume that means the "clutch side" of the reservoir was also emptied, right? I don't see how it'd be possible to flush just the brakes side. God, what a dumb design.)

So, why was the fluid black? Proximity of hydraulic line to catalytic converter? Thinking of wrapping it to protect from heat as mentioned by others in this thread. Only 66,000 miles, albeit 7 years old. Owner's Manual makes no mention of changing brake fluid, only topping it off. See screen shots of manual, below.

Not a long drive home so I won't declare victory, yet. That said, the pedal feels great and launching is noticeably smoother/easier. No trouble getting into first at stops. I am happy to hear master nor slave have leaks. Also relieved that they have bled these before and knew just what to do.

Oh, and brakes only worn 50%! Original factory setup. Score one for engine braking!

 

[SadRobot]

OK, just back from the new shop. They were great! The place is immaculate, they hired a few techs from my old mechanics shop, and the bill was very reasonable.

Anyway...

They called a couple hours after I dropped off and said they'd bled it and that there were bubbles. So @Actman was spot-on. Told me it felt much better, but also "The fluid is very, very dark. Like black." That explains why I was having trouble making out the level even with a powerful shop light pressed against the reservoir.

I authorized a flush and fill and I assume they had to bleed again after that. (The work order says "complete brake fluid flush and fill," but I have to assume that means the "clutch side" of the reservoir was also emptied, right? I don't see how it'd be possible to flush just the brakes side. God, what a dumb design.)

So, why was the fluid black? Proximity of hydraulic line to catalytic converter? Thinking of wrapping it to protect from heat as mentioned by others in this thread. Only 66,000 miles, albeit 7 years old. Owner's Manual makes no mention of changing brake fluid, only topping it off. See screen shots of manual, below.

Not a long drive home so I won't declare victory, yet. That said, the pedal feels great and launching is noticeably smoother/easier. No trouble getting into first at stops. I am happy to hear master nor slave have leaks. Also relieved that they have bled these before and knew just what to do.

Oh, and brakes only worn 50%! Original factory setup. Score one for engine braking!

Did they find the source of the air leak? If bubbles got in I'd think there has to be a leak somewhere.

Sponsored