Jeep Values - Massive Decline

[TheRaven]

Weird, resale values were at record highs 3 years ago...and prices were the same?

Interesting how it takes time for the negative effects of constant price increases take time to propagate isn't it?

You didn't honestly think that the moment they upped the MSRP that valuations would plummet?! LOL. No we're now paying for the mistakes that Stellantis made years ago.

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[Zandcwhite]

Interesting how it takes time for the negative effects of constant price increases take time to propagate isn't it?

You didn't honestly think that the moment they upped the MSRP that valuations would plummet?! LOL. No we're now paying for the mistakes that Stellantis made years ago.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with near double digit interest rates...

 

[Whaler27]

There is a large population that wants a simplified vehicle. Less expensive, less complicated, more reliable…

That’s the question being discussed here.

The Jeep Safari prototype in your linked video is the example we’ve been talking about. Zach’s point is people don’t buy the current base model, so why should jeep expect an even more basic model to sell? I’d want one, and several other old guys here might want one, but we seem to be the exception to the market rule now.

In the summer of 1977 my new CJ-7 had a Monroney sticker of about $4500. According to Google AI, inflation has been 420% since then. If you multiply the cost of my 1977 Jeep by that inflation you get $18,900. I’d re-buy a new version of that jeep in a blink for that price — but nothing like that Jeep will ever be sold again.

Lots of additional costs are pushing vehicle pricing up faster than inflation, including all of the required safety and emissions stuff and the need to heavily subsidize anemic electric car sales, so we’ll never see a $20,000 wrangler again.

…. and I never worked at a movie theatre, but when I was 16 minimum wage was well below $3… In the northwest the minimum wage has grown much faster than inflation, as folks now expect traditional minimum wage jobs to provide a permanent adult/career wage, which is something we never considered in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Whaler27]

Interesting how it takes time for the negative effects of constant price increases take time to propagate isn't it?

You didn't honestly think that the moment they upped the MSRP that valuations would plummet?! LOL. No we're now paying for the mistakes that Stellantis made years ago.

It wasn’t just Stellantis. Almost all manufacturers went crazy during free-money covid-flation, and too many sheeple went along for the ride.

We had several 2021-2022 threads here on the forum where younger folks were talking about trading up to new jeeps annually because they’d been able to sell their year-old jeep for more than they paid and, in some cases, more the new order cost. It was apparent from their posts that they expected this pricing trend to continue. They thought they’d stumbled on a new formula for success, as opposed to riding a short term wave. That’s the danger of developing long term financial strategies based on an 18 month look at a market, but lots of people did just that.

I was at a big RV show yesterday shopping for retirement wheels. I spoke to a friend who works for a large dealership. He said there are lots of people wanting to move up but, like last year, most are upside down in their current RV. Yesterday’s example was a nice couple in their early 30s that still owes $40,000 on their 2021 trailer that‘s worth about $14,000 In trade. Their remaining balance is financed at 4% on what remains of their fifteen year loan. Their new purchase would have to incorporate their $26,000 in “negative equity” financed at over 7%. There’s no way to make that work without a huge increase in monthly payment — so that couple is effectively out of the RV market for the foreseeable future. Depreciation is a bitch, but it‘s much worse for those who overpaid by 30%…

RVs and boats have always depreciated very, very quickly. I figure if I buy “right” (meaning 25% to 35% below MSRP), I expect to lose about 50% of my purchase price in 5 years. That’s the cost of playing, but I sold our last coach on consignment in the spring of 2022 because I saw older versions of our model being advertised for as much as $100,000 more than we paid for ours three years earlier. That’s crazy. We sold our boat for more than it cost 16 years earlier too. Also crazy. We saw similar patterns at the CanAm, Kubota, and John Deere dealerships. In over fifty years of paying attention to motorized things I’ve never seen anything like it. Now, predictably, it’s all coming home to roost, as all those people who financed hugely inflated prices are effectively out of the market as dealer inventory builds. Those folks will be hurt even worse as incentives build to clear the inventory, as dealers and manufacturers can’t floor that inventory forever.

 

[Ratbert]

This article is claiming that Wranglers still hold their value well, but some of the numbers given are bullshit: https://www.topspeed.com/pre-owned-jeep-wranglers-hold-their-value-better-than-most-cars/

Expect to pay between $32,107 and $68,172??? I guess they didn't spec one out?

And then they claim the average used price is $65,658??? Yeah, right.

 

[imac2001]

I bought base on purpose, and since it now comes with the 12.3” console display, there is nothing more I want in a Jeep. It is a manual. It doesn’t have heated seats, but the heater is so strong, I can’t see how you would need them. The manual locks are slightly annoying, but the 2025 base has automatic locks and windows.

The base model will also hold its value much better over time.

And yet the base price is within a few grand of a Honda civic. People on this forum talk about even more stripped models selling even cheaper... but nobody even buys the base model. Most of the people who pander for less tech and creature comforts on here drive pretty loaded Jeeps and it's baffling to me. Pretending Jeeps are overpriced while you pay double the base price for your loaded Rubicon is weird. Pretending there's too many creature comforts while you check the boxes for seat heaters, adaptive cruise, and leather is border line insanity. We've bought 2 JLURs and a JT mojave in the last 6 years, all with leather, seat heaters, etc. Only the mojave doesn't have adaptive cruise... and I wish it did. They already offer a very cheap, pretty basic model...and nobody wants it. That $30k might look appealing when you pass the dealer on the freeway and get you in the door...and in my opinion that's all they exist for.

 

[Twisted10]

There is a large population that wants a simplified vehicle. Less expensive, less complicated, more reliable. If they build it, they would sell as many as they could make. Assuming it was priced correctly.

we want them less expensive and less intrusive. cut out the nanny crap and let us be free to do as we please with OUR vehicles...

 

[Zandcwhite]

I bought base on purpose, and since it now comes with the 12.3” console display, there is nothing more I want in a Jeep. It is a manual. It doesn’t have heated seats, but the heater is so strong, I can’t see how you would need them. The manual locks are slightly annoying, but the 2025 base has automatic locks and windows.

The base model will also hold its value much better over time.

I don't think the value holding "better" is accurate. Historically all models lose value at a similar rate. Sure technically it will lose less dollar value but the % loss is the same. A $30k Jeep will only be worth ~$20k in 4 years where a $60k Jeep will still be worth $40k (assuming the market balances out and depreciation lands where it has averaged for 40+ years). Sure the base model only lost $10k in value where the loaded model list $20k...but the loaded model is still with 2x the base. Combine that with the fact that the manuals don't sell well new and the clutches are a known problem I wouldn't bank on having better than average resale.

 

[Zandcwhite]

we want them less expensive and less intrusive. cut out the nanny crap and let us be free to do as we please with OUR vehicles...

Half of those things are government mandated so don't hold your breath. Other things like locker in 2wd etc are simply warranty issues. When the soccer mom that bought the rubicon to look cool in the pick up line at the middle school pushes the bottom having no idea what it does she'll be calling a tow truck when she can't turn into the Starbucks drive through without a bunch of tire chirping. Just buy a tazer already.

 

[Upnover]

I think what we are seeing is buyers remorse.

IMO driving a Wrangler is a lifestyle choice. You either like it or you don’t.

So prices be damned, I will shop and buy as I choose. When you make big kid decisions, you have to live with them.

 

[Twisted10]

Half of those things are government mandated so don't hold your breath. Other things like locker in 2wd etc are simply warranty issues. When the soccer mom that bought the rubicon to look cool in the pick up line at the middle school pushes the bottom having no idea what it does she'll be calling a tow truck when she can't turn into the Starbucks drive through without a bunch of tire chirping. Just buy a tazer already.

Suburban karens are ruining us

 

[imac2001]

$70k Jeeps are a recent phenomenon, so only time will tell. You also have to look how the base model price has not increased that much since 2020. It’s been relatively stable. I paid $33k for a 2024. The base was $29.5k in 2020. Base is a better value during this period of crazy inflation. I think your assertion that all models depreciate the same % amount is wildly inaccurate, especially after the market returns to sanity.

I don't think the value holding "better" is accurate. Historically all models lose value at a similar rate. Sure technically it will lose less dollar value but the % loss is the same. A $30k Jeep will only be worth ~$20k in 4 years where a $60k Jeep will still be worth $40k (assuming the market balances out and depreciation lands where it has averaged for 40+ years). Sure the base model only lost $10k in value where the loaded model list $20k...but the loaded model is still with 2x the base. Combine that with the fact that the manuals don't sell well new and the clutches are a known problem I wouldn't bank on having better than average resale.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Suburban karens are ruining us

Agreed, but if you were selling to the general public and had to warranty...or even answer the phone with every dumb question would you do it any different? "I pushed the sway bar button and now my Jeep handles really bad and feels like it's going to tip over on the off ramp". "When I turn on the locker is really hard to turn into my driveway". We've seen enough posts on here about how hard it is to make tight turns on dry pavement in 4wd that I can only imagine how bad it would be if their are no nanny's.

 

[Zandcwhite]

$70k Jeeps are a recent phenomenon, so only time will tell. You also have to look how the base model price has not increased that much since 2020. It’s been relatively stable. I paid $33k for a 2024. The base was $29.5k in 2020. Base is a better value during this period of crazy inflation. I think your assertion that all models depreciate the same % amount is wildly inaccurate, especially after the market returns to sanity.

Historically that has been the case, but time will tell. The more you limit your resale market, the more likely resale value will be on the lower side of average. The manual does just that. As does the 4xe. Standard ICE vehicles with autos have generally followed the same formula. 15-20% loss in the 1st 2 years and 8-12% per year thereafter. Obviously it's all speculation and the covid/record inflation/high interest rate situation of the last 5 years is unique so time will tell.

 

[NWJeepr]

Other things like locker in 2wd etc are simply warranty issues.

I believe it's also a safety issue. Karen was doing 70 in the rain with the front locker engaged and the swaybar disconnected while sipping her latte and texting, and then swerved to avoid a breakdown on the shoulder. She lost control, flipped the Jeep in the median, and her kids were ejected through the roof that wasn't clearly labeled "isn't meant to contain occupants in the event of a rollover".

When Karen sues Jeep, alleging the Wrangler is an unsafe piece of junk, a jury is going to want to know why Jeep, with something so simple as programming limiting the use of a locker and sway-bar at freeway speeds, didn't lock those things out or properly warn the driver that those things were unsafe. Karen collects billions.

So many things are preventive in the event of lawsuit, but that's another subject, tort reform.

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