Here comes Roxor

[Old Jeeper]

So why not get the real thing— a road legal early CJ5, MD, or 3B with a very reliable 72 HP Hurricane for a lot less ?

I grew up and most of the Jeeps were on ranches and farms then, and ran the gamut from left over surplus to current CJs and a lot of them were just hunting vehicles. Noi top, doors, wet seats when it rained but sure get out there to that tree stand on some of those big ranches.

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[2nd 392]

How’s the parts availability?

Very available for our 3A, heck, I don’t recall when they quit installing them but early CJ’s even had a rear PTO. Dad got it (for a hunting vehicle) from a farmer that was using it for a tractor when the farmer got a real tractor. Some small things are getting harder to find ( I need parking light rings and lenses that disappeared after being removed for a tow when the light cord for removable lights was damaged) It does have a Hurricane swap that was used through 71. — PS— rear PTO winches pull you out of trouble, not deeper into it . ?

 

[2nd 392]

Since the first Jeep was mass-produced, as far as I know, all the parts are still available. There are still original frames available unless the guy has sold out

Don’t know if still available, but you could get complete bodies and frames etc from the Philippines until recently if not still.. edit— quick search, .(MD Jaun co) edit still, even through Quadratec.

 

[OrneryBear]

Standard playbook for an upstart to focus on a market segment that is considered non-threatening to the incumbent. Didn’t fool Stellantis. There is not enough of a farm vehicle market in the USA for this to be profitable for Mahindra. This is a beachhead into the automobile market.

Yes, the Roxor is registered in the ATV category of vehicle here in the US.

This is their US website landing page

and this is their global website

How do you come up with the USA not having a large enough farm vehicle market? agricultural vehicles is a 37 billion dollar industry in the US, expected to grow to 50 billion in the next 5 years. That is like 1/5 (20%)of the global market. Every farmer I know has a sxs and most opt for the agricultural utility version. I also see a ton of people who just have a lot of land who use them. There is definitely a profit to be made, if they aren't already making it.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

The Roxor startred out around $15k a few years ago, when it still looked like a morph between a CJ5, CJ6 and CJ7. A 7 slot grill could be added aftermarket. Mahindra's CJ fenders were better than the originals and better than any aftermarket ones out there. Notice that the fenders were the short, pre 71 style.

Someone with some halfway decent skills could add a CJ cowl, hood. grille and windshield frame to make what almost passes as an actual Jeep out of it. I'm sure many people who have a basket case POS old CJ, and the title to it, could buy an early Roxor and switch a few parts here and there to make it a road legal "restomod".

The Roxor isn't imported. It's made in a US factory. Mahindra has had a license from Jeep since the Kaiser ownership days, to build CJs, so did Mitsubishi. They both built CJ3Bs for years. Many of the Mitsubishis had either Jeep or Willys also stamped on them, along with their own branding. Both companies developed those vehicles over the years. The Toyota FJ was developed to specification given by the US government. Toyota developed it, but the US military never bought any. It's also very Jeep like, no doubt the CJ7 borrowed a lot from it.

The Jeep design was developed by the US Army, that's why all of the competitors in the initial contract, Ford, Willys and Bantam, all looked so similar. They were built to the specs given them. The government decided what they did and did not like after initial trials and the final standardized versions began production in early '42. The only real design change after that was in late '42 when the government chose the 9 slot stamped grille, developed by Ford, to keep costs down vs the welded slat grille. The US government awarded the rights to build the design after WWII to Willys Overland.

Mahindra didn't build that factory here by accident. They have greater intentions for it I'm sure. If the Roxer somehow infringes on the Wrangler ( they no longer share a single part), then other parts from around the world should too. Brand new CJ bodies are made in The Philippines by a company called MD Juan. American Genaral's own HMMWV has many Jeep design cues, after all the company was started by AMC, and Jeep's own 4 door Wrangler has HMMWV style elements to it too. These lawsuits are a slippery slope. I doubt Stellantis, who inherited the lawsuits, will push any further.

Jeep has been successful in defending the 7 slot grille as a patented design, and clearly makes it part of there brand ID. Strangely though, that design was changed for most '24 Wranglers. The second design Roxor, that had the FJ 40ish grille should have satisfied Jeep's lawsuit, and the judge or jury. The current model is so different, and ugly, that any further suit should have ceased. The Bronco looks far more like a current Wrangler than any Roxor does.

Jeep should consider buying or investing/partnering in the Mahindra Roxor plant and build a CJ again. An updated model. The Roxor would be very close to what Jeep could call a CJ 11. Jeep really needs a smaller, less optioned model to slot in below what's rapidly becoming a very expensive Wrangler. The Roxor would be a great start. Jeep's expereince, contracs and volume ability could bring the Roxor price down several thousand dollars, even with updates.

 

[Hpc3]

Standard playbook for an upstart to focus on a market segment that is considered non-threatening to the incumbent. Didn’t fool Stellantis. There is not enough of a farm vehicle market in the USA for this to be profitable for Mahindra. This is a beachhead into the automobile market.

Yes, the Roxor is registered in the ATV category of vehicle here in the US.

This is their US website landing page

and this is their global website

Are they planning on exporting any of these cars to the USA? I bet China has a closer match to the Wrangler than the Mahindra, they flat out copy everything there, but nothing can come here for sale/use. Not sure a Willys copy is an automotive threat, yet.

 

[Jeep Wick]

@The Last Cowboy that's great info. The previous gens were much better looking.

Really like the 2 door Toyota Stout.

 

[2nd 392]

Are they planning on exporting any of these cars to the USA? I bet China has a closer match to the Wrangler than the Mahindra, they flat out copy everything there, but nothing can come here for sale/use. Not sure a Willys copy is an automotive threat, yet.

Hmmm— with the new 24 grille Mahindra may now have a case against Jeep

Mighty Similar— ? ?‍?

 

[calemasters]

Of course they copied Jeep. After all, who better to copy?

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Hmmm— with the new 24 grille Mahindra may now have a case against Jeep

Mighty Similar— ? ?‍?

That was the first redesign, Jeep took them back to court for that one. I would think that Toyota would not like that design, but it's no longer used.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Over priced but poorly built side by side. Can think of far more capable from Polaris and Can-Am etc.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

How do you come up with the USA not having a large enough farm vehicle market? agricultural vehicles is a 37 billion dollar industry in the US, expected to grow to 50 billion in the next 5 years. That is like 1/5 (20%)of the global market. Every farmer I know has a sxs and most opt for the agricultural utility version. I also see a ton of people who just have a lot of land who use them. There is definitely a profit to be made, if they aren't already making it.

You could be right. But here’s how I estimated the financial situation:

Case study of Polaris, which in their 2022 annual report to shareholders they disclosed a 7% net profit margin.

https://s27.q4cdn.com/214071222/fil...r/2022-PII-Annual-Report-bookmarked-Final.pdf

Granted that Polaris also makes snowmobiles, motorbikes and jet skis … but would you say about 1/3 of their ATV/UTV vehicles are sold for farm use versus recreational use?

We’ll this ATV market research report estimates 38% of ATV market is agricultural.

https://www.researchnester.com/reports/all-terrain-vehicle-atv-market/5006

My guesstimate is that a durable goods or capital equipment company that is making 7% net profit would struggle to tread water if it only could access 1/3 of the market that its competitors do.

 

[2nd 392]

That was the first redesign, Jeep took them back to court for that one. I would think that Toyota would not like that design, but it's no longer used.

That was a joke— but this is probably what they’re preventing at all costs

or a “Classic” if you prefer

It wouldn’t take much to make the 3B look alike damn near a clone

 

[4x4snowmachinejeep]

Haha, Pass

Well you don't need to worry about lining things up and disconnecting pins and hydraulic lines to change out attachments on these Mahindra's

 

[OrneryBear]

You could be right. But here’s how I estimated the financial situation:

Case study of Polaris, which in their 2022 annual report to shareholders they disclosed a 7% net profit margin.

https://s27.q4cdn.com/214071222/fil...r/2022-PII-Annual-Report-bookmarked-Final.pdf

Granted that Polaris also makes snowmobiles, motorbikes and jet skis … but would you say about 1/3 of their ATV/UTV vehicles are sold for farm use versus recreational use?

We’ll this ATV market research report estimates 38% of ATV market is agricultural.

https://www.researchnester.com/reports/all-terrain-vehicle-atv-market/5006

My guesstimate is that a durable goods or capital equipment company that is making 7% net profit would struggle to tread water if it only could access 1/3 of the market that its competitors do.

I dont think it's a good comparison to use polaris' market share as a way to predict whether mahindra can make a profit on UTVs. You're comparing an 8 billion dollar company (polaris) to a 21 billion dollar company (mahindra). Polaris is a powersports manufacturer, not an agricultural equipment manufacturer. They aren't even considered competitors to one another.

You started by saying there wasn't much of a market for farm vehicles in the US, which is not true, and you said Mahindra is an "upstart". They are the #1 seller of tractors in the world. Farms buy a lot of vehicles, and that includes UTVs. Hell I know a farm that has 3 employees and 5 agricultural UTVs.

I've seen quite a few of these mahindra UTVs driving around our area too. Not as many as John Deere UTVs, but more than I've seen the Kubota UTVs.

for the record, I'm not trying to be confrontational, just discuss what you said, just don't want this to come off wrong.

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