Hardwire battery tender, which bolt/screw?

[WranglerMan]

@Jebiruph the first pic is the Jeep at idle, voltage floats between 12.6-12.7

And here is a quick vid of the voltage jumping up and down, this is what it did when I first got it and I mentioned it to the dealer service ppl and they told me it was normal, they said it’s part of the battery management system and only charges when necessary.



As I am decelerating the voltage jumps up to over 14 and once stopped it drops back down to the 12.6, again this is the exact behavior it did when I first got it and over the months the voltage floated less and less and finally stayed around the 14.0-14.2 and ESS did not work and upon checking they said the main battery was bad.

It’s doubful I will go visit them as they told me it was normal before so I am guessing I wil get the same answer but will keep the pic and vid if and when it craps out

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[WranglerMan]

@Rhinebeck01 honestly I can’t seem any harm in leaving it in the original location you had it so why did you chose to move it, just curious

 

[WranglerMan]

Reality is, it does not matter at all.. As I said above >>> "Again, reality is connection points can be wherever lets say, with the same end result"

Anyway, today, I changed out the bolt/nut in that #7 per pic, because the stock nut and bolt are lets say dysfunctional and frail ...... and well, just moved the wire from 5 to 7 since I was there frucking with things anyway... 8-)

I think I will just leave mine where it’s at, I don’t want to head to the auto parts store when I break that bolt

 

[Jebiruph]

@Jebiruph
As I am decelerating the voltage jumps up to over 14 and once stopped it drops back down to the 12.6, again this is the exact behavior it did when I first got it and over the months the voltage floated less and less and finally stayed around the 14.0-14.2 and ESS did not work and upon checking they said the main battery was bad.

It’s doubful I will go visit them as they told me it was normal before so I am guessing I wil get the same answer but will keep the pic and vid if and when it craps out

12.6v seems low to me for a running engine, but that may be operating as designed with the PCM monitoring the load and adjusting alternator output as necessary. If there was a problem I would expect some kind of alert. Mine is pretty much always at 14.7v, but no alerts either. The benefit of the lower alternator output is better MPG and longer battery life, constantly charging the battery with 14.7v is said to wear it out quicker.

 

[WranglerMan]

12.6v seems low to me for a running engine, but that may be operating as designed with the PCM monitoring the load and adjusting alternator output as necessary. If there was a problem I would expect some kind of alert. Mine is pretty much always at 14.7v, but no alerts either. The benefit of the lower alternator output is better MPG and longer battery life, constantly charging the battery with 14.7v is said to wear it out quicker.

Yes sir it seems low to me as well as I’m an old school guy that constantly saw 14+ going to the battery all the time from the alternator.

I had a meeting to go to yesterday and it’s about a 90 min round trip trip, I checked the main battery before I left and even measured both points from N1 and N2 using the main negative and all three point read 12.7 ish and after my drive to and from with everything on ( lights, radio, wipers etc,,) I checked the voltage after getting home and it was exactly the same.

This is the way my JL acted when I got it and it drove me nuts but the dealer said that’s that’s the way it’s supposed to be and I even ran a google search and there are a few posts on other forums in regard to this and several are seeing what I’m seeing with the voltage swings.

In the end who knows as I don’t have any quirky messages displayed and all seems to work as designed like ESS and other electrical devices that we normally use ( lights, radio etc..) so my plan is to just move on and hopefully it continues to work like it is but if it takes a chit I guess the service ppl can figure it out.

Thanks for the help on what points to measure both batteries on and your work on the ESS bypass troubleshooting, having a jumper for N1 to N2 would come in really handy when that ESS battery craps out

 

[WranglerAz]

Today my Jeep dealer tech told me #5 is the IBS stud, and accessories should not be hooked up to it because the IBS will have a parasitic drain on the battery. The tech hooked up my accessories (RSE step sliders, Warn winch) to #6, and said the drain was not seen.

Since #5, #6, and #7 all connect to the same negative terminal, how can this drain, only be on #5?

 

[Jebiruph]

Today my Jeep dealer tech told me #5 is the IBS stud, and accessories should not be hooked up to it because the IBS will have a parasitic drain on the battery. The tech hooked up my accessories (RSE step sliders, Warn winch) to #6, and said the drain was not seen.

Since #5, #6, and #7 all connect to the same negative terminal, how can this drain, only be on #5?

#5, #6 and #7 connect to the same negative terminal, but current to #5 and #6 passes through and is monitored by the IBS, which is what you want. #5 and #6 are electrically the same, so electrically it wouldn't matter which you connect to. But #6 was a good choice to avoid any physical stress or damage to the IBS stud, though unlikely. Here's an old pic that shows the details of the connection.

 

[WranglerMan]

I have my winch and tender quick connect hooked to #6 & #7 and have had no issues, I can see the issues of stress on the IBS post but as far as current draw by looking at the clustered connector on the negative side it seems that what ever post you chose to connect to on the negative side it would all be the same as they all lead to the main negative post

 

[Jebiruph]

I have my winch and tender quick connect hooked to #6 & #7 and have had no issues, I can see the issues of stress on the IBS post but as far as current draw by looking at the clustered connector on the negative side it seems that what ever post you chose to connect to on the negative side it would all be the same as they all lead to the main negative post

I posted IBS information here https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-ibs-information.22585/
The IBS monitors more than voltage, it also monitors current and temperature and uses all the information to analyze the state of the battery. #6 and #7 are not electrically the same, the IBS lives between them. Electrical current to anything connected to #5 or #6 goes through and is measured by the IBS, Electrical current to #7 bypasses the IBS and is not part of battery state analysis.

 

[WranglerMan]

@Jebiruph if that’s the case I will have to move my winch negative to #7 as it’s currently on #6, my battery tender quick disconnect is connected to #5 but since it rarely gets used would it need to be moved to #7 as well

 

[Jebiruph]

@Jebiruph if that’s the case I will have to move my winch negative to #7 as it’s currently on #6, my battery tender quick disconnect is connected to #5 but since it rarely gets used would it need to be moved to #7 as well

That's the opposite of what I would recommend. I would leave them on #5 and #6 to facilitate accurate battery state analysis. The point I was trying to make was to not connect to #7.

 

[WranglerAz]

That's the opposite of what I would recommend. I would leave them on #5 and #6 to facilitate accurate battery state analysis. The point I was trying to make was to not connect to #7.

After listening to the dealer tech, and my post above about it, I followed the tech recommendation and now I have nothing on #5 (IBS stud), winch on #6, and RSE slider steps on #7. My use of #5 and #6 matches your post above, however I am a bit confused on the use or non-use of #7. Should I move the step sliders to #6 too?

 

[Jebiruph]

After listening to the dealer tech, and my post above about it, I followed the tech recommendation and now I have nothing on #5 (IBS stud), winch on #6, and RSE slider steps on #7. My use of #5 and #6 matches your post above, however I am a bit confused on the use or non-use of #7. Should I move the step sliders to #6 too?

I don't think the dealer tech knew what he was talking about. There's no difference between using #5 or #6. I would use #5 or #6, with a preference for #6. I would not use #7 because it would bypass the IBS and may result in inaccurate main battery analysis.

 

[WranglerMan]

@Jebiruph here’s an odd one and slightly off topic, several days ago as I was resetting some trip miles and fuel stuff I came up on the battery voltage in the EVIC and it read a solid 14.1 and this kinda caught my attention as it normally was running 12.8-13.5 so I watched it a few days and it stayed at the 14.1 so I hooked up my tender and after 10 mins it went to float mode so that prompted me to pull out my meter and check the main and ESS and both were reading 12.6-12.7 ( fully charged ) so after thinking about this I pulled the main and ESS negative and waited 10 mins and then reconnected and after a few start/stops it dropped to 12.5-12.6 in the EVIC so my thinking was I reset the IBS

Well fast forward several more days and everything works with no error messages but then there were none with the hight voltage reading either, but this time a CEL popped up and all was normal except for the CEL so rather than go to the dealer or auto store I just used the Tazer to clear the CEL to see if it came back and so far so good but on the way home I stopped by the dealer to make an appt for oil change and asked about the high voltage spike that I had for the few days and I’m not sure if it’s BS or not but the tech said that built into the program is a charging algorithm the periodically ramps the alternator up to full output for a day or two to keep the battery fully charged even if the battery is healthy so have you ever heard of this or is it a bedtime story.

For several months I have had zero issues and I honestly don’t look at voltages or measure them very often anymore and usually put my tender on once a month as at least once a month my JL stays parked for about 7-10 days at a time and since we are traveling for the next 10-14 days I put the tender on today and it’s acting normal and not jumping instantly to float mode and the EVIC is back to displaying 12.8-13.3 on the EVIC

 

[Jebiruph]

@Jebiruph here’s an odd one and slightly off topic, several days ago as I was resetting some trip miles and fuel stuff I came up on the battery voltage in the EVIC and it read a solid 14.1 and this kinda caught my attention as it normally was running 12.8-13.5 so I watched it a few days and it stayed at the 14.1 so I hooked up my tender and after 10 mins it went to float mode so that prompted me to pull out my meter and check the main and ESS and both were reading 12.6-12.7 ( fully charged ) so after thinking about this I pulled the main and ESS negative and waited 10 mins and then reconnected and after a few start/stops it dropped to 12.5-12.6 in the EVIC so my thinking was I reset the IBS

Well fast forward several more days and everything works with no error messages but then there were none with the hight voltage reading either, but this time a CEL popped up and all was normal except for the CEL so rather than go to the dealer or auto store I just used the Tazer to clear the CEL to see if it came back and so far so good but on the way home I stopped by the dealer to make an appt for oil change and asked about the high voltage spike that I had for the few days and I’m not sure if it’s BS or not but the tech said that built into the program is a charging algorithm the periodically ramps the alternator up to full output for a day or two to keep the battery fully charged even if the battery is healthy so have you ever heard of this or is it a bedtime story.

For several months I have had zero issues and I honestly don’t look at voltages or measure them very often anymore and usually put my tender on once a month as at least once a month my JL stays parked for about 7-10 days at a time and since we are traveling for the next 10-14 days I put the tender on today and it’s acting normal and not jumping instantly to float mode and the EVIC is back to displaying 12.8-13.3 on the EVIC

When my voltage was mid 14s for months, my dealer said it was not a problem unless it went up to 14.8, then they would look at it. I even disconnected the IBS to reset it and nothing changed (now that I think about it, I'm sure if that's how it gets reset). It did eventually start getting to 14.8 frequently, but the real world distracted me for a while and I quit monitoring the voltage. Then when some of these battery related posts recently popped up, I started checking again and now it's working as designed, around 13.1 and voltage goes up when decelerating.

I don't think there is a periodic ramp up to keep the battery charged, but think the battery state reporting by the IBS is responsible for the high 14+ voltage when it happens. That's why I advocate for not bypassing the IBS by connecting anything to #7 as that could confuse the IBS analysis of the battery.

I just remembered that during a really cold spell over the winter, my tire pressure got low enough to trigger the low pressure warning. After I aired them up to an acceptable level, my voltage level read correctly for about 3 days before it reverted back to the mid 14s. I'm not sure I can explain that one.

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